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G.huz

the importance of soft shackles, kinetic rope and solid recovery points

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14 minutes ago, M.K said:

My own reflections on this:  

-          What have failed in this case is not the tow hook, it seems the bolts. Then I see a locally fabricated bar, like the one on the land cruiser, I always get worried. I have too many times seen bars being fixed using the bolts of the regular tow points. If that is the case, the high-tensile rated factory bolts might have been too short and did not have enough of threads. The bolts might even have been replaced with local none rated longer bolts. The bolt might not have been tightened and therefore bent before ripped off.

-          Even if it seems not have been the issue in this case, the factory front hooks on the 100 series land cruiser are rubbish and should be replaced. It bends after a few recoveries. Unless you like to go after market recovery points, both the 105 and the 70 series have factory recovery points with the same bolt pattern. The 100 series cruiser is not the only car with bad factory points. Possibly something the club could support and recommend?

-          I do fully agree on using soft shackles were possible. The less iron that comes flying, the better it is.

-          Many of us knows very well the strengths and the weaknesses of our own cars. We know what point to use and we have ensured the bolts are high tensile rated. But how can we ensure the car you are recovering are properly setup? If it fails in the other end, you get it in your wind screen.

-          We often have the debate on recovering from the front or the back. Some time you have no option depending on how the car is stuck. From the recovery vehicle point of view, you also have weaknesses and benefits. Pulling from the back going forward might put less strain on your drive train. It might also provide some better safety. Pulling from the front reversing on the other hand provides better visibility and control.

-          I also have a good experience using bridle. The main benefit is that you divide the force on two points and the risk for failure is less. But if you get a failure, the friction is high enough to take the tension away. It only takes a moment longer to rig

Image result for bridle snatch strap

(picture stolen from the WEB)

-          A safety strap also comes handy. It doesn’t divide the force, but it stops things from flying.

 

Will be pleased to share my experiences if anyone would be interested. :-)

Good stuff 👍

this setup is close to what I had in mind.

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if people while servicing their cars notice when it's rised they could make out some more places where they could put shackles like thick chassis beams under the car they too are solid but definitely not on the shock struts

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11 hours ago, Gaurav said:

We always like to share and listen everyone's experiences, please go ahead @M.K with your inputs. 

I used safety straps on both sides on stubborn stucks if car doesn't come out in first 2-3 attempts or if I need to give harder tug to reposition the car.

Hi Gaurav, lets do that around the camp fire and compare notes. :-)

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Thats why you need to get out of the way and be in a safe place in case they fail. 

Edited by Javier M
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Second try on the topic, would any of us be willing to invest in proper recovery points? Would AED 200 per point be excessive (estimate if we will be doing a few)? I know ARB have some proper points, but I have not seen much in the other shops. But if there would be enough of interest, we can probably get one of the shops to manufacture. Would be interesting to ask. I would like to have the following criteria’s as a base:

-          Must be bolted to the chassis without any drilling or modifications.

-          Fixed with minimum two, preferable more, high tensile bolts in existing holes in the chassis.

-          Eyelet, no hooks. Eyelet big enough for a soft shackle and rounded edges to avoid excessive were.

-          One peace laser cut. Only welding for additional strength.

-          Proper rust proofing

This is the first draft and I’m sure I have forgotten some important points.

Image result for arb recovery points

Image result for arb recovery points

Image result for arb recovery points

All stolen pictures.

 

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 I've checked in several Pajero forums (South-Africa, Australia) about my OEM recovery points and they seem to be of good quality. No reports have been posted about damages.

Getting them fabricated is an option, or going for aftermarket ones. If i'd get them fabricated, i would go for Stainless Steel 304 or 316. Takes away the worries about corrosion.

I guess it depends from driver to driver if he thinks his OEM points are "good enough" or if they would invest in aftermarket ones. 

Have a look at attached bolt grade markings and strength chart. 10.9 and 12.9 are preferable.

front tow.jpg

rear tow.jpeg

bolts.JPG

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20 minutes ago, Frederic said:

 I've checked in several Pajero forums (South-Africa, Australia) about my OEM recovery points and they seem to be of good quality. No reports have been posted about damages.

Getting them fabricated is an option, or going for aftermarket ones. If i'd get them fabricated, i would go for Stainless Steel 304 or 316. Takes away the worries about corrosion.

I guess it depends from driver to driver if he thinks his OEM points are "good enough" or if they would invest in aftermarket ones. 

Have a look at attached bolt grade markings and strength chart. 10.9 and 12.9 are preferable.

 

Fredrick, Thanks! You are the expert and this is your area. :-) 

For OEM recovery points, you might be lucky for Pajero, for other brands it is certainly not the same. most land rovers do not even have points. LC200 have fair points. Prado / FJ has points at the back that could have been better. 

My only worry with stainless, and please correct me if I'm wrong, my impression is that stainless is brittle and should not be used for recoveries. A carbon steel would be more elastic and would show fatigue before it brakes. Anyway, it can be compensated by over-sizing the builds to be on the safe side. 

On rated bolts, I do agree. Do any of you have a good supplier for rated bolts? The only one i have found so far only stock untreated bolts with Allen key head. As they are not galvanized, they need to be painted to avoid rust. 

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Just a thought guys, maybe we can remove the stock tow hook once a year to inspect for any corrosion as visual looks from outside may not be sufficient especially on the bolt thread. 

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33 minutes ago, M.K said:

Fredrick, Thanks! You are the expert and this is your area. :-) 

For OEM recovery points, you might be lucky for Pajero, for other brands it is certainly not the same. most land rovers do not even have points. LC200 have fair points. Prado / FJ has points at the back that could have been better. 

My only worry with stainless, and please correct me if I'm wrong, my impression is that stainless is brittle and should not be used for recoveries. A carbon steel would be more elastic and would show fatigue before it brakes. Anyway, it can be compensated by over-sizing the builds to be on the safe side. 

On rated bolts, I do agree. Do any of you have a good supplier for rated bolts? The only one i have found so far only stock untreated bolts with Allen key head. As they are not galvanized, they need to be painted to avoid rust. 

Thanks buddy, but I’m far from an expert. In my line of work I just need a very broad range of skills and that has always helped me.

About the carbon steel, you’re right as it’s slightly more flexible than SS. I didn’t consider that one.

let me check with our procurement guy where we buy the decent quality of bolts. Most of them are from the general traders, but for some application the 10.9 rating is very critical and necessary, as well as proper torquing and quality of the bolt itself. These are coming from bigger industrial suppliers.

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@M.K Good quality bolts can be purchased through Wurth.

 

Capture.JPG

Edited by Frederic
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