Recovery points

[Per A]

I just read something interesting about the recovery points on my pajero.

 

The 2 front looks are recovery points but the one in the back are just tie downs and you should have a tow hitch to be able to do a rear recovery?

how do carnity groups look at this? do i need a tow hitch to qualify for front and rear recovery points?

[Per A]

And i just found this in the manual??

they are tow hooks both front and rear?, not recovery points or tie downs.

[Frederic]

Very good remark @Per A. I have same car and while these can be used for towing and tie-down, they are also being used for recovery, BUT in that case it would be advisable to distribute the load between the left and right towhook by using a bridle. 

It mainly depends on the severity of stuck. If we see the possibility to pull from the front, then it makes more sense to do that. Luckily the factory tow points from a Pajero are quite decent and strong, but during more extreme recoveries we use safety straps to avoid the tow hook flying off in the air. 

In terms of total load that they should take it is as following:

1) Tie-down point: require little strength

2) Tow point: requires more strength, but still made for on-road only in theory.

3) Recovery point. Highest rating and highest load can be applied. 

We have many Pajeros in Carnity and they fully qualify to join on the drives, so no worries about that.

 

[desertdude]

2 minutes ago, Frederic said:

Very good remark @Per A. I have same car and while these can be used for towing and tie-down, they are also being used for recovery, BUT in that case it would be advisable to distribute the load between the left and right towhook by using a bridle. 

It mainly depends on the severity of stuck. If we see the possibility to pull from the front, then it makes more sense to do that. Luckily the factory tow points from a Pajero are quite decent and strong, but during more extreme recoveries we use safety straps to avoid the tow hook flying off in the air. 

In terms of total load that they should take it is as following:

1) Tie-down point: require little strength

2) Tow point: requires more strength, but still made for on-road only in theory.

3) Recovery point. Highest rating and highest load can be applied. 

We have many Pajeros in Carnity and they fully qualify to join on the drives, so no worries about that.

 

Also being used for recovery doesn't mean they are meant to handle such loads.

Just because something hasn't gone wrong till now means it won't in the future.

With all the banging on about safety here on Carnity all the time, how is this practice acceptable?

[Frederic]

I've looked into this matter specifically on my 2008 Pajero which is the same as @Per A his car a while back, and consulted a lot of other forums where one got an official reply from Mitsubishi stating the following:

"Please be advised that despite not being referred to 'recovery points,' the loops at the front and rear of the vehicle are 'emergency towing points' and can be used as such if a vehicle cannot be accessed by a tow truck or similar. Please refer to the extract from your Owners Manual below (section 8-18)"

If i can speak for the rest of Carnity i can assure you that we take ANY possible action to ensure the safety of ourselves, and our fellow team members. 

When doing extreme recoveries (not just a little tug), the senior members will discuss the best and safest approach before doing anything. Using bridles, soft shackles, and others come into play to make sure the loads are distributed and the risk is minimized.

Looking back at your reply, you strike a good point that IN THEORY only RATED OFFROAD RECOVERY POINTS should be used, and not tow points. If we would apply that rule, we would have to seriously look into the cars that are eligible for this. I am afraid not many are left with these nowadays. Maybe you can tell us.

 

 

[Gaurav]

10 minutes ago, desertdude said:

Also being used for recovery doesn't mean they are meant to handle such loads.

Just because something hasn't gone wrong till now means it won't in the future.

With all the banging on about safety here on Carnity all the time, how is this practice acceptable?

Read Again @Frederic comment

14 minutes ago, Frederic said:

I have same car and while these can be used for towing and tie-down, they are also being used for recovery, BUT in that case it would be advisable to distribute the load between the left and right towhook by using a bridle. 

It mainly depends on the severity of stuck. Luckily the factory tow points from a Pajero are quite decent and strong, but during more extreme recoveries we use safety straps to avoid the tow hook flying off in the air.

Watch the video from MMC Engineers testing the so called tie-down points.

 

Just FYI and everyone knowledge most cars these days have tie-down points and no pintle hook or tow hook comes standard. This means for moderate sand stuck, you can use them safely but for deep stuck, use both hooks with bridle what @Frederic mentioned.

Using single hook in deep stuck will tear down the chassis point, like it happen with Xterra.

So far we have tons of Pajero and none of their tow points failed yet.

Same has been shared in Australian forum too

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=57572

[Per A]

27 minutes ago, Frederic said:

Very good remark @Per A. I have same car and while these can be used for towing and tie-down, they are also being used for recovery, BUT in that case it would be advisable to distribute the load between the left and right towhook by using a bridle. 

It mainly depends on the severity of stuck. If we see the possibility to pull from the front, then it makes more sense to do that. Luckily the factory tow points from a Pajero are quite decent and strong, but during more extreme recoveries we use safety straps to avoid the tow hook flying off in the air. 

In terms of total load that they should take it is as following:

1) Tie-down point: require little strength

2) Tow point: requires more strength, but still made for on-road only in theory.

3) Recovery point. Highest rating and highest load can be applied. 

We have many Pajeros in Carnity and they fully qualify to join on the drives, so no worries about that.

 

Thanks! found the post about the manual thats why i found the part in the manual  

[desertdude]

2 hours ago, Frederic said:

I've looked into this matter specifically on my 2008 Pajero which is the same as @Per A his car a while back, and consulted a lot of other forums where one got an official reply from Mitsubishi stating the following:

"Please be advised that despite not being referred to 'recovery points,' the loops at the front and rear of the vehicle are 'emergency towing points' and can be used as such if a vehicle cannot be accessed by a tow truck or similar. Please refer to the extract from your Owners Manual below (section 8-18)"

If i can speak for the rest of Carnity i can assure you that we take ANY possible action to ensure the safety of ourselves, and our fellow team members. 

When doing extreme recoveries (not just a little tug), the senior members will discuss the best and safest approach before doing anything. Using bridles, soft shackles, and others come into play to make sure the loads are distributed and the risk is minimized.

Looking back at your reply, you strike a good point that IN THEORY only RATED OFFROAD RECOVERY POINTS should be used, and not tow points. If we would apply that rule, we would have to seriously look into the cars that are eligible for this. I am afraid not many are left with these nowadays. Maybe you can tell us.

 

 

Not many left but always have the option to install. My sheep xj came with 0 recovery points front or back. So I had to install them on both ends. And since the XJs unibody chassis is made of used cardboard had to get the proper ones which are bolted on yo the unibody one foot deep on all sides 

Then my disco had no recovery points in the front so had to get them done too. 

So it's basically we'll cross that bridge when we get there

2 hours ago, Gaurav said:

Read Again @Frederic comment

Watch the video from MMC Engineers testing the so called tie-down points.

 

Just FYI and everyone knowledge most cars these days have tie-down points and no pintle hook or tow hook comes standard. This means for moderate sand stuck, you can use them safely but for deep stuck, use both hooks with bridle what @Frederic mentioned.

Using single hook in deep stuck will tear down the chassis point, like it happen with Xterra.

So far we have tons of Pajero and none of their tow points failed yet.

Same has been shared in Australian forum too

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=57572

I've probably witnessed a 110 incident free recoveries from a tow ball. Just because nothing happened doesn't mean it's right 

You can search for videos where towballs have gone flying like cannon balls

[Gaurav]

39 minutes ago, desertdude said:

I've probably witnessed a 110 incident free recoveries from a tow ball. Just because nothing happened doesn't mean it's right 

You can search for videos where towballs have gone flying like cannon balls

We all have witnessed aftermarket tow hooks, ball, hitch failing gazillions of time as factors involved behind such bad jobs are endless, but never or almost never a factory tie-down point failed, if used within limits.

• Not rated hook, ball or hitch
• Weak joints
• Wrong placement
• Wrong size/strength of bolts used
• Wrong number of bolts used

Just this year, Xterra tie-down point failed, but everything was still safe as it was secured with additional strap due to heavy impact expected. And moreover after lot of research on that incident we realized that speed of the pull was a major cause than the weight rating.

Early this year, I have winched same Xterra while hanging nose down on top of mountain and same factory tie-down point didn't failed.

Apart from that incident, we have no other tie-down or tow points failing incident so far.

[desertdude]

11 minutes ago, Gaurav said:

We all have witnessed aftermarket tow hooks, ball, hitch failing gazillions of time as factors involved behind such bad jobs are endless, but never or almost never a factory tie-down point failed, if used within limits.

• Not rated hook, ball or hitch
• Weak joints
• Wrong placement
• Wrong size/strength of bolts used
• Wrong number of bolts used

Just this year, Xterra tie-down point failed, but everything was still safe as it was secured with additional strap due to heavy impact expected. And moreover after lot of research on that incident we realized that speed of the pull was a major cause than the weight rating.

Early this year, I have winched same Xterra while hanging nose down on top of mountain and same factory tie-down point didn't failed.

Apart from that incident, we have no other tie-down or tow points failing incident so far.

There is a reason why they are called tie downs, as in secure a vehicle while being transported and that's what they are made for and rated for. 

Not for off road recoveries