Range Rover 2010 or BMW X5 M Twin Turbo 2011

[Gaurav]

23 minutes ago, desertdude said:

This is indeed a very old trick LR has used over and over again. The Discovery series I is nothing but a Range River Classic with a less luxurious and more utilitarian body shell. The Series II is also nothing but a P38a Range River with a less luxurious and more utilitarian bodyshell. Only this time the went around the other way and dressed up a Discovery as a more "sporty" range rover

And u forgot the biggest disaster of the century - "Dressed up Defender"

[desertdude]

13 minutes ago, Gaurav said:

And u forgot the biggest disaster of the century - "Dressed up Defender"

What do you mean? The new Defender? That's an awesome car.

 

 

[Shadab Khan]

Hi @desertdude, I can't tell if you are sarcastic or not, but I am curious to know what you think of old Defenders. They are revered by countless, and they are famous for being really tough. On the other hand, I have also read on defender forums that people (like me) who haven't really had experience with it, and who fantasize about owning one because retro is the new cool, have no clue about the numerous problems old defender used to throw at the owner – something to do with oil leaks and the comfort level of a tractor.

Nevertheless, there are fan forums filled with tall tales of old defenders overcoming anything thrown at it, but I think by now I have learnt that a lot depends on the drivers and what the car was outfitted with apart from the engine and a tough chassis (e.g. tires).

I do like the idea of new defender, on paper at least. LR claims is the strongest defender they have built. I of course have no reference and no way of knowing what "strongest defender" even means here. On the other hand, I see that LR is again trying to pitch defenders to people who have on road bias but want a "cool" retro modern car, whatever that means.

So what do you think? Are you a fan of old defenders? If so, how do you see them against their peers from the late 90s e.g. (Land Cruisers)?

[desertdude]

16 minutes ago, Shadab Khan said:

Hi @desertdude, I can't tell if you are sarcastic or not, but I am curious to know what you think of old Defenders. They are revered by countless, and they are famous for being really tough. On the other hand, I have also read on defender forums that people (like me) who haven't really had experience with it, and who fantasize about owning one because retro is the new cool, have no clue about the numerous problems old defender used to throw at the owner – something to do with oil leaks and the comfort level of a tractor.

Nevertheless, there are fan forums filled with tall tales of old defenders overcoming anything thrown at it, but I think by now I have learnt that a lot depends on the drivers and what the car was outfitted with apart from the engine and a tough chassis (e.g. tires).

I do like the idea of new defender, on paper at least. LR claims is the strongest defender they have built. I of course have no reference and no way of knowing what "strongest defender" even means here. On the other hand, I see that LR is again trying to pitch defenders to people who have on road bias but want a "cool" retro modern car, whatever that means.

So what do you think? Are you a fan of old defenders? If so, how do you see them against their peers from the late 90s e.g. (Land Cruisers)?

Defenders were very good right up until 1997 because that was the last year they offered a proper petrol V8 engine. After that all Defenders switched to a pathetic 4cyl diesel engine out of a Ford Transit Van.ater they went to a turbo diesel 5cyl known as TD5 and then again a turbo charged 4 cylinder diesel. 

Also they were priced like luxury SUVs. The last old school Defender fully loaded one was around 300,000dhs. And you basically get a farm truck from the 80s for that. The Defender didn't even change its dashboard until the mid 80s

Most of the love affair with Defenders is from old British farmers and country folk, Just the same as the Texas ranch owner loves his Ford F150 pickup.

Also since the Defender almost literally stayed unchanged most of it is basically nostalgia. Because they grew up with the same car and basically the same car was still available.

Off road wise it is or was pretty capable. By that I mean the European version of off roading with it's anemic diesel engine  Which is basically mud plugging andd some rough country roads and a few river crossing. 

After it lost its V8 petrol engine it pretty much lost favour for desert and dune bashing type of off roadinf here in the GCC plus it being over priced. Although there still is a defender fan base who basically use it for soft roading and overlanding

My favourite is the NAS spec D90 i.e 2dr short wheel base with an automatic transmission and a 4.0 distributorless petrol V8 other than that even for only off roading I would never even think of it. 

It looks cool no doubt but drives like shit and is extremely outdated.

But would I buy a 1997 NAS Spec V8 for 100k plus No way. Not unless I was made of money and had it coming out of my ears.

Save for the grumpy old luddites the Defender really needed to die because LR basically ignored it for 20 plus years while they concentrated on their other money makers.

Even Mercedes didn't ignore their G Wagon and kept updating it as time went on and only last year for the first time it was made did a totally new car from the ground up but still keeping it's boxy shape. Which was it's key selling point and the other being the massive biturbo V8.

But it still drove like an ox cart. But people overlooked that because it featured all the modern bells and whistles and that massive PowerPlant I mentioned earlier.

The Defender literally had nothing going for it save for a small select group of grumpy old men who don't like change

 

45 minutes ago, Shadab Khan said:

Hi @desertdude, I can't tell if you are sarcastic or not, but I am curious to know what you think of old Defenders. They are revered by countless, and they are famous for being really tough. On the other hand, I have also read on defender forums that people (like me) who haven't really had experience with it, and who fantasize about owning one because retro is the new cool, have no clue about the numerous problems old defender used to throw at the owner – something to do with oil leaks and the comfort level of a tractor.

Nevertheless, there are fan forums filled with tall tales of old defenders overcoming anything thrown at it, but I think by now I have learnt that a lot depends on the drivers and what the car was outfitted with apart from the engine and a tough chassis (e.g. tires).

I do like the idea of new defender, on paper at least. LR claims is the strongest defender they have built. I of course have no reference and no way of knowing what "strongest defender" even means here. On the other hand, I see that LR is again trying to pitch defenders to people who have on road bias but want a "cool" retro modern car, whatever that means.

So what do you think? Are you a fan of old defenders? If so, how do you see them against their peers from the late 90s e.g. (Land Cruisers)?

Defenders were very good right up until 1997 because that was the last year they offered a proper petrol V8 engine. After that all Defenders switched to a pathetic 4cyl diesel engine out of a Ford Transit Van.ater they went to a turbo diesel 5cyl known as TD5 and then again a turbo charged 4 cylinder diesel. 

Also they were priced like luxury SUVs. The last old school Defender fully loaded one was around 300,000dhs. And you basically get a farm truck from the 80s for that. The Defender didn't even change its dashboard until the mid 80s

Most of the love affair with Defenders is from old British farmers and country folk, Just the same as the Texas ranch owner loves his Ford F150 pickup.

Also since the Defender almost literally stayed unchanged most of it is basically nostalgia. Because they grew up with the same car and basically the same car was still available.

Off road wise it is or was pretty capable. By that I mean the European version of off roading with it's anemic diesel engine  Which is basically mud plugging andd some rough country roads and a few river crossing. 

After it lost its V8 petrol engine it pretty much lost favour for desert and dune bashing type of off roadinf here in the GCC plus it being over priced. Although there still is a defender fan base who basically use it for soft roading and overlanding

My favourite is the NAS spec D90 i.e 2dr short wheel base with an automatic transmission and a 4.0 distributorless petrol V8 other than that even for only off roading I would never even think of it. 

It looks cool no doubt but drives like shit and is extremely outdated.

But would I buy a 1997 NAS Spec V8 for 100k plus No way. Not unless I was made of money and had it coming out of my ears.

Save for the grumpy old luddites the Defender really needed to die because LR basically ignored it for 20 plus years while they concentrated on their other money makers.

Even Mercedes didn't ignore their G Wagon and kept updating it as time went on and only last year for the first time it was made did a totally new car from the ground up but still keeping it's boxy shape. Which was it's key selling point and the other being the massive biturbo V8.

But it still drove like an ox cart. But people overlooked that because it featured all the modern bells and whistles and that massive PowerPlant I mentioned earlier.

The Defender literally had nothing going for it save for a small select group of grumpy old men who don't like change

 

[Rahimdad]

All I can add is you could open the whole Defender up with a single spanner. Now that was insane.

[desertdude]

1 hour ago, Shadab Khan said:

Hi @desertdude, I can't tell if you are sarcastic or not, but I am curious to know what you think of old Defenders. They are revered by countless, and they are famous for being really tough. On the other hand, I have also read on defender forums that people (like me) who haven't really had experience with it, and who fantasize about owning one because retro is the new cool, have no clue about the numerous problems old defender used to throw at the owner – something to do with oil leaks and the comfort level of a tractor.

Nevertheless, there are fan forums filled with tall tales of old defenders overcoming anything thrown at it, but I think by now I have learnt that a lot depends on the drivers and what the car was outfitted with apart from the engine and a tough chassis (e.g. tires).

I do like the idea of new defender, on paper at least. LR claims is the strongest defender they have built. I of course have no reference and no way of knowing what "strongest defender" even means here. On the other hand, I see that LR is again trying to pitch defenders to people who have on road bias but want a "cool" retro modern car, whatever that means.

So what do you think? Are you a fan of old defenders? If so, how do you see them against their peers from the late 90s e.g. (Land Cruisers)?

Defenders were very good right up until 1997 because that was the last year they offered a proper petrol V8 engine. After that all Defenders switched to a pathetic 4cyl diesel engine out of a Ford Transit Van.ater they went to a turbo diesel 5cyl known as TD5 and then again a turbo charged 4 cylinder diesel. 

Also they were priced like luxury SUVs. The last old school Defender fully loaded one was around 300,000dhs. And you basically get a farm truck from the 80s for that. The Defender didn't even change its dashboard until the mid 80s

Most of the love affair with Defenders is from old British farmers and country folk, Just the same as the Texas ranch owner loves his Ford F150 pickup.

Also since the Defender almost literally stayed unchanged most of it is basically nostalgia. Because they grew up with the same car and basically the same car was still available.

Off road wise it is or was pretty capable. By that I mean the European version of off roading with it's anemic diesel engine  Which is basically mud plugging andd some rough country roads and a few river crossing. 

After it lost its V8 petrol engine it pretty much lost favour for desert and dune bashing type of off roadinf here in the GCC plus it being over priced. Although there still is a defender fan base who basically use it for soft roading and overlanding

My favourite is the NAS spec D90 i.e 2dr short wheel base with an automatic transmission and a 4.0 distributorless petrol V8 other than that even for only off roading I would never even think of it. 

It looks cool no doubt but drives like shit and is extremely outdated.

But would I buy a 1997 NAS Spec V8 for 100k plus No way. Not unless I was made of money and had it coming out of my ears.

Save for the grumpy old luddites the Defender really needed to die because LR basically ignored it for 20 plus years while they concentrated on their other money makers.

Even Mercedes didn't ignore their G Wagon and kept updating it as time went on and only last year for the first time it was made did a totally new car from the ground up but still keeping it's boxy shape. Which was it's key selling point and the other being the massive biturbo V8.

But it still drove like an ox cart. But people overlooked that because it featured all the modern bells and whistles and that massive PowerPlant I mentioned earlier.

The Defender literally had nothing going for it save for a small select group of grumpy old men who don't like change

 

17 minutes ago, Rahimdad said:

All I can add is you could open the whole Defender up with a single spanner. Now that was insane.

That's just not true at all.