The Greatest of Recoveries

[Ashok chaturvedi]

On 3/13/2021 at 8:53 AM, Mohamed Seidam said:

From NB drive on 12/3/2021 please watch and listen to the radio , it’s more redirecting the vehicle for better recovery as the stuck vehicle was on super soft sand and my self on soft sand . 
 

 

@Carnity my question is what is better to use flat fixed rope  between three cars rather then any soft. So no tugs but pulling recovery as one may cascade (hit)  into each other. Also what is best technique for a car in a ditch/hole to recover where the rope may have a hilly bend to come out if pulled and the towing car is on a downhill and cannot come to the edge. 

[Frederic]

 

[M.Seidam]

Thank you @Frederic I read all of it ( I did before ) but now read all again and all my doubts if any are so clear . 🙏

[Gaurav]

9 hours ago, Mohamed Seidam said:

Double rope recovery 

 

This is the most inexperience and most common way to NOT to do recovery.

1. Stuck white wrangler seems front heavy (00:02) and doing recovery from back has added to the struggle.
2. Crested vehicle on such height should not be attempted with tow rope recovery to risk getting two car stuck with a full tension rope.
3. After getting 2 car stuck risking third car is even more unsafe approach.
4. Third car tug was at super high speed with Viking rope (00:11), that could have snapped the tow points or break the rope, as viking ropes aren't designed for such high speed tugs.

Alternative

1. Recovery from the front side (if possible).
2. Recover from the front or back with tow rope, ONLY if recovery vehicle can move closer to the stuck car freely after stopping half way, so that recovery vehicle can go back close to stuck vehicle after first softer tug (if needed).
3. Use winch to be safer (if available).
4. If not, the best way to recover is by creating a V-Channel with shovel, without risking any more car getting stuck. With two people making the channel, they could have unstuck wrangler in 5-10 minutes.

Thankfully all Carnity trip leads and members who took Desert Recovery Champion course knows all this and much more practical and safer way to recover and self-recover cars.

[Gaurav]

2 hours ago, Ashok chaturvedi said:

@Carnity my question is what is better to use flat fixed rope  between three cars rather then any soft. So no tugs but pulling recovery as one may cascade (hit)  into each other.

You mean strap by saying flat fixed rope?

Three cars didn't get it? Is that like above video? It's a complete no - no to risk too many cars.

Remember you free up your Pajero in recovery champion course in Maliha by creating a V-Channel, that's what is needed here.

If you are referring to two cars simultaneously pulling one car uphill, then it depends on the situation:

• Use viking on both vehicles pulling if stuck vehicle is NOT buried in sand.
• Use strap if stuck vehicle is buried in sand till chassis and you cant clear the resistance by shoveling.

2 hours ago, Ashok chaturvedi said:

Also what is best technique for a car in a ditch/hole to recover where the rope may have a hilly bend to come out if pulled and the towing car is on a downhill and cannot come to the edge. 

Broad straps so they dont slice the dune like a round rope and waste all the pulling power. In such case you can both too. Strap on the curve of a dune and viking attach to recovery vehicle so you can give better and elastic pull yet without slicing the dune with your viking rope.

[Gaurav]

@Ashok chaturvedi hope you remember how I recovered dead F150 by using broad strap as a bridle and attached viking rope through the bridle to my car.

Reason for that is when F150 crossing the dune bridle strap will not go inside the dune easily and viking elasticity will keep pulling the car out as my car weight was quiet light to take full load of F150. Second advantage that I will have 3 meters (fixed) + 9 meter (elastic) distance of 12 meter giving F150 driver enough chance to brake with hard foot as vehicle was dead and braking in dead vehicle is always very tough. Third advantage to use bridle is to direct all the (limited) pulling power in center of F150 than pulling it from left or right shackle to increase the drag and resistance for my car.

[M.Seidam]

Thank you 🙏  @Gaurav for the input and I agree with you 100% ...my posting to that wrangler clip never meant I agreed about it .  as for me in the crest situation I will always go for the shovel and v cause when it’s done properly it really won’t take than 10 min as you said . 

[Thomas Varghese]

3 hours ago, Mohamed Seidam said:

Hello desert Wanderers 

Previously there was a discussion somewhere else in this nice and lovely forum of @Carnity about ropes . I just would like to get this straight . 
 

there are basically two kind of ropes and they serve different purpose 

the first is the snatch or tow rope and it’s stiff and very strong and it’s designed for lifting several tons like in construction or towing a vehicle , hence called tow rope 

the other type is recovery or kinetic rope and this is the one we use in sand and I say in sand not in wadi or gravel terrain  and obviously it’s purpose not to tow but to recover utilising the stored  kinetic energy being built during the stretch to recoil along the length of the rope and the rebound effect what brings the bogged vehicle out of the Sandy pit , bowl or pocket . The point is that we let this process to happen smoothly and gradual depending on difficulty of the situation . At times when we are bound of little space we tend to shorten the distance and shortening the length of the rope and I think this has nothing to do with increasing the power of strength as long as it’s one rope and not latterly two separate ropes. 
 

please let us know more , I might be wrong !
 

Hi @Mohamed Seidam,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the physics behind shortening the length of the kinetic rope for pulling out. I believe what @Lawrence_Chehimi stated in his thread explains the physics. Let me explain. The kinetic rope is used because the rope stretches and stores kinetic energy which releases and aids at the time of pull. When you double it up by shortening it the rope gets double the kinetic energy - not by tying 2 ropes together and making it longer. When you double up a rope the two portions act as 2 parallel source of pull with double kinetic energy. This doesn't happen when you double up a rope and increases its length as both rope acts like one. There will be an increase in kinetic energy but not so much as you connect them parallel. Moreover the force acts in a shorter path when connected parallel than connecting in series. I don't know much more than this to explain. 

[Frederic]

1 minute ago, Thomas Varghese said:

Hi @Mohamed Seidam,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the physics behind shortening the length of the kinetic rope for pulling out. I believe what @Lawrence_Chehimi stated in his thread explains the physics. Let me explain. The kinetic rope is used because the rope stretches and stores kinetic energy which releases and aids at the time of pull. When you double it up by shortening it the rope gets double the kinetic energy - not by tying 2 ropes together and making it longer. When you double up a rope the two portions act as 2 parallel source of pull with double kinetic energy. This doesn't happen when you double up a rope and increases its length as both rope acts like one. There will be an increase in kinetic energy but not so much as you connect them parallel. Moreover the force acts in a shorter path when connected parallel than connecting in series. I don't know much more than this to explain. 

A kinetic rope generally stretches about 20% over the total length, doubling up this rope will not make any difference nor will it give double kinetic energy. Try the trick with a small rubber band and you'll see that it makes zero difference.

[Thomas Varghese]

2 minutes ago, Frederic said:

A kinetic rope generally stretches about 20% over the total length, doubling up this rope will not make any difference nor will it give double kinetic energy. Try the trick with a small rubber band and you'll see that it makes zero difference.

Maybe you are correct dear @Frederic. I don't remember much of the physics learned 35 years ago except the 3 laws of motion by Newton. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Thomas Varghese