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Desert Champions Trophy - 2021 - Winning Team

Torque vs BHP - Calling all Petrol-Heads, Enthusiast, Mechanics, Engineers


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Hi fellow off-road enthusiasts,

I need some education and opinion on the topic of Torque vs BHP with regards driving off-road in the Desert. 

(Prior to this post, I spent sometime searching this topic, though plenty of content available, it was monopolized by off-road = overlanding/rock crawling and not our terrain)

#1 - if you have a link I can educate myself on, please feel free to share that vs writing up a reply (save you all time)

Here's the back drop to the discussion/topic: 

Engine in question: 

  • V6 3.0L Petrol (single turbo)
  • 285HP
  • 450NM Torque
  • Vehicle Weight 2.5 - 2.8Ton (kerb weight)

Let the debate begin 

Thanks in advance

Edited by Niki
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You need to look at the torque vs BHP curve of the engine itself, and utilize that engine as efficient as possible.

Let me give you a Pajero example on the 3.5 vs 3.8 Engines:

Below chart shows you the 3.5 Engine which offers its max torque of 306Nm at 3,750 rpm, and its max 189BHP at 4,750rpm. You can see that you lose a lot of torque after the 3,750rpm, hence on a long hill-climb, its the BHP that needs to do its job.

3.5.png.0bd46635206a2882935f5127730f1eac.png

If we now move on to the 3.8 Engine, you might notice that its reaching its peak torque earlier at 2,750rpm. That explains it has slightly more grunt in lower rpm compared with the 3.5 engine, but the biggest difference is that the 3.8 engine really opens up from 5200rpm onwards (where the MIVEC system opens the valves more), and this results in better hill climb performance.

 

3.8.png.140df27664a8e250282e39946df041a0.png

In any case, torque or BHP needs to be transferred through the wheels, onto the sand, hence by making sure you have a good foot print on the sand (good deflation, offroad tyres), you will be able to utilize this power better.

A good example is the Nissan Patrol Y61, which is rather heavy (2400+kgs) and BHP is not that impressive (240hp) but the good amount of torque of 420NM due to is big engine size really makes it shine in the desert (if you know how to utilize its power).

Next to these values, transmission and gear ratios play a big role, but that can only be tested in real live situations.

You example is about a turbocharged engine, which will have a totally different engine curve due to the turbo boost. Would love to know which engine you are referring too.

PS is this a potential investment for next years DCT to keep up with @Lorenzo Candelpergher ? In that case you better opt for an F35.

 

 

 

 

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"Go as far as you can see; once you get there, you'll be able to see further."

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15 minutes ago, Frederic said:

You example is about a turbocharged engine, which will have a totally different engine curve due to the turbo boost. Would love to know which engine you are referring too.

PS is this a potential investment for next years DCT to keep up with @Lorenzo Candelpergher ? In that case you better opt for an F35.

Many thanks @Frederic - really helpful.  I couldn't find the Torque vs BHP Curve for the specific engine. 

The Car in question:

  • Ineos Grenadier (Inline 6 and not V in my original post) 
  • BMW B58 Engine (tuned to the 285HP/450NM spec)
    • i couldn't find a version of this engine tuned to the above spec so no detailed data easily available. 

LMAO - I am definitely not made for speed and may plan to be the Tea/Coffee runner next years DCT to ensure none of the leads fear seeing my name in the pot :) 

 

6CBD1FE4-FB9C-4C3C-976F-728F1926A73D.jpeg.4ad553388f2648707111bd4ca14368dd.jpeg

went on a test run (passenger only) last week and have a soft spot for this car! 

Edited by Niki
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13 minutes ago, Niki said:

Many thanks @Frederic - really helpful.  I couldn't find the Torque vs BHP Curve for the specific engine. 

The Car in question:

  • Ineos Grenadier (Inline 6 and not V in my original post) 
  • BMW B58 Engine (tuned to the 285HP/450NM spec)
    • i couldn't find a version of this engine tuned to the above spec so no detailed data easily available. 

LMAO - I am definitely not made for speed and may plan to be the Tea/Coffee runner next years DCT to ensure none of the leads fear seeing my name in the pot :) 

 

6CBD1FE4-FB9C-4C3C-976F-728F1926A73D.jpeg.4ad553388f2648707111bd4ca14368dd.jpeg

went on a test run (passenger only) last week and have a soft spot for this car! 

Beautiful 4x4. Reliability will need to be proven over the years, but the inline six in combo with Turbo should perform great. 

I see this more as the ideal overlander, putting camping beds, coffeemaker, gas BBQ, inside, but then again i would be favoring the Landcruiser 70 series more for that. (bulletproof reliability).

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12 minutes ago, Frederic said:

Beautiful 4x4. Reliability will need to be proven over the years, but the inline six in combo with Turbo should perform great. 

I see this more as the ideal overlander, putting camping beds, coffeemaker, gas BBQ, inside, but then again i would be favoring the Landcruiser 70 series more for that. (bulletproof reliability).

Agree that its definitely not a first choice for climbing and high speed adventures - will wait for a true offroad test drive in the new year and report back.  The reliability is for sure a question mark - I love the LC70 & classic Patrols and we are so lucky they are still available for us out here.  

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28 minutes ago, Niki said:

Many thanks @Frederic - really helpful.  I couldn't find the Torque vs BHP Curve for the specific engine. 

The Car in question:

  • Ineos Grenadier (Inline 6 and not V in my original post) 
  • BMW B58 Engine (tuned to the 285HP/450NM spec)
    • i couldn't find a version of this engine tuned to the above spec so no detailed data easily available. 

LMAO - I am definitely not made for speed and may plan to be the Tea/Coffee runner next years DCT to ensure none of the leads fear seeing my name in the pot :) 

 

6CBD1FE4-FB9C-4C3C-976F-728F1926A73D.jpeg.4ad553388f2648707111bd4ca14368dd.jpeg

went on a test run (passenger only) last week and have a soft spot for this car! 

Me too @Niki, was there last week. To be honest the only thing I liked and started investigation, are the top roof windows. Usually when I go down on a sharp angle dune, you dont see the next climb up. With this design in the Ineos, and while going down a slop, it was so clear on the other side. I could not tell the guy, this what I only liked in the car, I was afraid he will not drop me back to my car. 😂

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1 minute ago, Hisham Masaad said:

. I could not tell the guy, this what I only liked in the car, I was afraid he will not drop me back to my car. 😂

LMAO - How can you not love the internal controls :) .... you are very hard to please @Hisham Masaad (i think you just don't want to let go of the FJC and hand it over to your son !) 

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8 minutes ago, Niki said:

LMAO - How can you not love the internal controls :) .... you are very hard to please @Hisham Masaad (i think you just don't want to let go of the FJC and hand it over to your son !) 

I dont understand for what all these buttons, looks like an airplane. With few buttons we have in our cars, and we are hardly controlling. 

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@Niki I hope it's unbreakable, if it is not, any spare will reach your grand-grand son in time for the 21st birthday

5 hours ago, Hisham Masaad said:

Me too @Niki, was there last week. To be honest the only thing I liked and started investigation, are the top roof windows.

Give a FJ driver a couple of centimeters more of windows and visibility and he will buy anything.... :)

Edited by PaoloMaraziti
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5 hours ago, Niki said:

The reliability is for sure a question mark - I love the LC70 & classic Patrols and we are so lucky they are still available for us out here.  

The more time we spend in the desert of UAE and will be so technology adverse that the Flinstones will look futuristic people. Guys, let's embrace some technology... I am waiting for Rivian to launch their EV Pickup and will surely sport it in the Emirates... with all the wires nowadays because of teh seismic exploration, even recharging will not be a problem anymore :)

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