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Desert Champions Trophy - 2021 - Winning Team

Torque vs BHP - Calling all Petrol-Heads, Enthusiast, Mechanics, Engineers


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2 minutes ago, PaoloMaraziti said:

@Niki I hope it's unbreakable, if it is not, any spare will reach your grand-grand son in time for their 21st birthday

Now you understand why i left the brand/name of the car out of the original post :) ... its a polarizing vehicle and i wanted to focus/learn about the impact/benefits/limits of the choice in engine for our type of offroading (dunes).   

During the drive the guys from xQuary (so partially independent from Ineos) mentioned the performance was not limiting (power to weight) and that the torque was a positive for dune driving (he did state a turbo means being more intentional with regards approach speeds)

Have been following the Grenadier since concept and intrigued by the approach they are taking (parts, service, warranty, support etc ... its nothing like what's out there at present - which makes it a gamble, but exciting) 

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I can’t fathom the internal stress and temperature a constantlyspooling turbo must be running during a high level dune bashing drive. Add to that the many components, additional heat, intercooler piping, which sounds to me like a recipe for disaster in the deserts we drive in.

The main and only reason why turbos have been so popular is the higher engine performance with a smaller engine displacement. For onroad vehicles this will be fine because you’re not constantly in the high rev band, but in 45 degree desert environment I’d take the NA engine any day.

 

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"Go as far as you can see; once you get there, you'll be able to see further."

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On 11/21/2021 at 11:16 AM, Frederic said:

A good example is the Nissan Patrol Y61, which is rather heavy (2400+kgs) and BHP is not that impressive (240hp) but the good amount of torque of 420NM due to is big engine size really makes it shine in the desert (if you know how to utilize its power).

I have a question here on the "how to utilize its power". Here is the graph of the engine performance of the TB48DE in question:

image.png.7823fb66caf4916fe290ab4c11593198.png

By "good utilization" do you mean I should stick around 3k-4k revs to benefit from the higher torque? Imagine I'm climbing uphill, around 4k rev, I feel struggling, should I step more on the gas or let the torque due the magic and hope for the best? It seems to me that stepping on the gas in this scenario will make the situation worse instead of better.

Thank you for your advice in advance ;)

Edited by Sergio Negri
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19 minutes ago, Sergio Negri said:

I have a question here on the "how to utilize its power". Here is the graph of the engine performance of the TB48DE in question:

image.png.7823fb66caf4916fe290ab4c11593198.png

By "good utilization" do you mean I should stick around 3k-4k revs to benefit from the higher torque? Imagine I'm climbing uphill, around 4k rev, I feel struggling, should I step more on the gas or let the torque due the magic and hope for the best? It seems to me that stepping on the gas in this scenario will make the situation worse instead of better.

Thank you for your advice in advance ;)

Very good point. What i meant with good utilization is this:

- your peak torque is indeed between 3-4k revs, so for most off-roading this will be your powerband you should try to keep the 4x4 in (during high level drives that is). That will give you good response and excellent behavior.  

- For climbing, you will need to use that torque in combination with a good headstart, so once your torque dies out, your BHP would take over and you can keep it close to the rev limiter. 

Above are just my two cents as a practical guy. @Rob H is a professional tuner and would definitely be able to go much much deeper into this topic.

 

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"Go as far as you can see; once you get there, you'll be able to see further."

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Get a y62 and you wont worry about all these, just floor it whenever you need some power. You guys gonna hate me after this post.

3C55487C-2EDA-4CCB-B906-131439319626.jpeg

Edited by Lawrence_Chehimi
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5 hours ago, Sergio Negri said:

I have a question here on the "how to utilize its power". Here is the graph of the engine performance of the TB48DE in question:

image.png.7823fb66caf4916fe290ab4c11593198.png

By "good utilization" do you mean I should stick around 3k-4k revs to benefit from the higher torque? Imagine I'm climbing uphill, around 4k rev, I feel struggling, should I step more on the gas or let the torque due the magic and hope for the best? It seems to me that stepping on the gas in this scenario will make the situation worse instead of better.

Thank you for your advice in advance ;)

I believe the key to climb is momentum and momentum = mass x velocity. 

Before you start climbing, you will need to push your rpm to its peak of horsepower delivery, which is right before the red rpm zone, to have the maximum amount of momentum from velocity.

As you start climbing all the resistance and gravity start to consume momentum and you will see rpm dropping, then you will need to keep your rpm in the peak torque delivery zone to make sure horsepower is delivered for maintaining velocity. 

When the amount momentum left doesnt allow torque to maintain the horsepower delivery, which is when rpm doesnt respond to your pedal and the car starts refusing moving more, thats when you end the climb by steering down and give in to gravity.

 

In real scenario, we use technics to obtain velocity when we don't have the space to obtain velocity from car itself

Base on my understand above, the strength of TB48DE is that it has big torque to maintain the velocity and the peak torque comes in much earlier, which makes velocity handy?

 I hope my understanding is correct in physics, I dont major in physics 😁

Edited by Zixuan Huang - Charlie
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