Zed

1 hour ago, Luke K P said:

@Zed come do drive 100 out here with us this weekend mate 😎

decision...decision 😅  this drive is already full, while the other drive starts at 7am and less full 😁 will toss a coin 48hrs before 🪙

39 minutes ago, Gary F said:

Maybe we will find a moment for that experiment @Mark B @Zed

 

@JeromeFJ front right sway bar link extra tight in preparation 

@JeromeFJ's entry point is Ramlah Sweihan Bowls Bowls Bowls Strip... it will be a good area to test 4Lo vs 4Hi ... also I just installed Mopar original beadlock wheels for the Cherokee (got them for free so can't refuse installing them  ) - I might try climbing in 4Lo with 6 psi 😅

20 hours ago, Gaurav said:

Reviving this out of genuine curiosity.

Has any of Wrangler owner ditched BF Goodrich and switched to lighter AT tires like Geolandars or LTX force?

• BFG weighs 30 - 35 kgs
• Geolanders: 18 kgs
• LTX Force: 19 kgs

If anyone has done that, you might not need 4L for hill climb as bigger and heavier tires are counter-productive for sand dune - long hill climb.

Hi @Gaurav , Julius (the Red Wrangler in my DCT team) did that and sent me his comparison of tires table below. He switched to Cooper AT3 4S (19.5kg per tyre) 285/70/17 for 5 years and still drove in 4L. Recently before DCT he switched to Geolandar P-rated (20.4 kg) 285/70/17 and again still drove in 4L. Told me the reason was "more controlled" but I'm also guessing habits don't change easy    With @Naveen Raj confirming he drove in 4H 2nd gear, this confirms both 4L and 4H can climb Nagra (last minutes in https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cy5P6SaJU9s/ ) , so it doesn't matter 4Lo or 4Hi as long as you're confident you can make it  

6 minutes ago, Jaro Tuzinsky said:

They will drive crazy for this hunting:( it will be dangerous or?

Can't comment on that in public forum, I'll just tell you tomorrow in the briefing  

7 minutes ago, Jaro Tuzinsky said:

Is it the treasure hunt with UAE off-roaders?:( i heard about it but didn’t know where it will be.

yes it is, they just announced today, was hoping they will be in quiet Razeen 😂 but guess we'll see tomorrow how it'll be 🤞🏻

Hi Marshal @JeromeFJ  heads-up there will be around 150 cars in GPS coord 24.394510, 55.483620  at 7am tomorrow for a GPS Treasure Hunt briefing, after that those cars will randomly go around to pick up flags until 3pm...   Sweihan is still a big playground, but I think towards Al Ain airport will be less crowded  

cc @Gary F  good time to check 4Lo vs 4Hi ? 😁  will be joining w/ my Jeep WK on this drive...

2 hours ago, Gary F said:

 Great post @Zed been thinking about this a lot recently and with 50 drives I think it’s time for some experimentation.

Driving the Jeep Gladiator Sandrunner (Mojave in USA) its already packing a few hundred kilos of extra weight vs a Wrangler between the bed, reinforced frame and larger axles.  
 

I often find on larger climbs in 4hi I’m running out of RPM in first and torque in second, with 31 inch tires.
 

The Mojave has a 2.71:1 transfer case allowing up to 70kmh speeds (50mph)

might be time to find tall dune for some experiments. 

Congrats on reaching 50 drives @Gary F and your willingness to experiment to find your own driving style 👍🏻 . Please document it like this https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2SVhe5JgRU/?igsh=azVsa3B2c3VnZmN6 (middle of video he revealed it's 4Lo 3rd gear). Science says an experiment that can be repeated by others using the same tools means your paper is accepted by peer reviews and you've proven your point 😅

Pro Tip: start from 4Lo 3rd gear. ZF Transmission Triptronic is awesome that it will automatically cycle 1st & 2nd for you and hold in 3rd. Most Torque Curve diagrams say 3000-3500rpm is engine's peak torque, so when climbing, you want to find the best gear that's in that range and not go above 5000rpm (contrary to most beliefs, at 5000rpm you're actually losing torque).

Once you're in flatter areas, upshift to 4Lo 4th or above to keep rpm in the 2000-2500 rpm range to save petrol, and cool both engine & transmission. Downshift again before climbing. And when you're stuck, you're already in 4Lo so you can just shift to 1st or 2nd and do the blip-blip 🙂

*Also call me if you're going to choose Sweihan, Faya or Khatim for testing grounds, be happy to join if not busy ✌🏻

39 minutes ago, Harshal said:

Not sure about Jeeps specifically but my Tundra has relatively heavy tires (315 Baja Champions), of course its Supercharged and modified a lot, but I still never use 4LO, (if you really want better response from heavy and large tires, it better to regear) it stresses the car out too much and I only use it if the car is really badly stuck. In general for most cars, use 4H, use 4LO only if you see the car isn't responding well or when you feel that it needs that extra push.

To cut the story short: Senior Marshal Fadi drives in 4Lo, and his convoy won the Desert Champions Trophy (I believe all in his convoy does the same; driving in 4Lo). That's 6 hours of non-stop driving in 4Lo and so yes you can get away with it.  His opinion on 4Lo here >> https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cm6VAp4q6lR/?igsh=ZnozYXVhbTNhZHNv

So I've re-geared 4x already and I've seen what's inside my transfer case + front & rear diffs. I would never drive 4Lo high speed in my Gear-Driven Transfer Case Land Cruiser, but I've driven a few times in 4Lo with my 5-speed Jeep with Chain-Driven Transfer Case... because Gear-Driven Transfer Case is only suitable for low-speed driving.  This is why there is No Generic Rule to 4LO: it primarily depends on the car and secondarily depends on the driver if he wishes to experiment with his car  

1) First front & rear to 4.88 gearing to cater for heavier tires on the Land Cruiser

2) Second opened my Transfer Case and re-geared the 4Lo gears to make 1:3 reduction in 4Lo only.

3) Third when installing ARB air lockers (carriers) I opened the front & rear differentials and notice the ring pattern signify that my differentials were not properly installed the first time. So I re-geared front & diff again, this time making sure proper break-in process is followed and triple-checking the backlash & preload of rings & pinions.

4) Finally I opened my Transfer Case again cos I was afraid same thing might happen to the Transfer Case as with the diffs. Then for fun & experiment I re-geared the 4Hi gearing in transfer case by simply changing 2 gears. This basically makes my 4Hi "spin more".

The 4.88 in front & rear diffs + the 10% underdrive in 4H gears Transfer Case = 5.3 final drive ratio so I don't need 4Lo for normal sand driving (even if my Transfer Case was Chain-Driven).

The whole Transfer Case system is just a GEAR REDUCTION mechanical device. And so a 1:4 Transfer Case Ratio for Rubicon just means the max speed in 4Lo is  1/4th of the max speed in 4Hi.  It's like driving slower than 1st Gear, but because there is no -1, -2, -3, -4  Shifter, the wizards invented Transfer Case to go Lower than Normal 1st Gear. Obviously there is no use of these lower gears in the asphalt / normal highway, but depending on car (should you wish to experiment), it may has some advantage in loose-traction areas like sand and slower-but-precision drives like rock-crawling.

So will 4Lo break your car? Judging by the simplicity of Gear Reduction concept, it probably won't. BUT older cars like my Land Cruiser have Gear-Driven Transfer Case whcih are not suitable for high-speed motion, so I agree with @Carnity Marshals here that you shouldn't drive in 4Lo with these kind of cars.  Newer cars with more transmission shifts and Chain-Driven Transfer Case have more flexibility... with the Chain TransferCase you can drive faster than with Noisy Gear-Driven TransferCase.  Most people who broke their transfer case in 4Lo most probably broke their Chain in the transfer case too, but for the adventurous who like to experiment with their cars, go ahead and drive in 4Lo... the theory has been laid out, and now it's time for practice 😁

Congrats @JeromeFJ 👏🏻 funny thing i always thought you were Marshal already 😄 Amazing how far you've gone with that Stock FJ 👍🏻, looking forward to driving with you again this season...

was enjoying this debate while eating popcorn, and I thought when the Crews started giving their advice, this thread would have been finalized, but nooooo 😂

@Josh S the easy answer is if you're driving with Carnity Marshals, 99% you'll drive in 4H. 

Using @Looper's video here >> https://www.instagram.com/p/Cz1suDgNlgq/  you can see the speed stats and he's driving around 50 km / h. Your 2021 Rubicon has the 4:1 Transfer Case Ratio ... Then the max speed is a quarter (1/4) of the max speed in 4H, assuming 160 km/h max in 4H, your 4L max speed is 40 km/h. Any more than that and you're redlining, overheating both your engine and possibly reducing transmission life.

Now those other JL Sports have 2.7:1 Transfer Case Ratio, so in 4Lo their max speed is 1/2.7 which is 60 km/h. If they're following Looper in that video, they can drive in 4L and get away with it (although I'd postulate they can't drive too long without breaks).

Yes you can run 55 mph (100 km/h) in 4Lo like video below >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEboJi5FhpE   Look how "Torquey" the car is when in 4Low.

The Marshals who drive in 4Lo usually have these characteristics:

1. They firmly believe the Owner's Manual only applies to Asphalt Traction. When they're driving in very loose traction like super soft sand, 4Low has more tolerances thus you can go higher than the manual says.

2. They have BeadLock Wheels, which are heavier and need more torque to turn than normal lighter stock wheels.

3. They have Heavier Tires, combined with BeadLock most probably 285s (33") or taller. Again, more torque needed to spin the tires.

4. They have 6-speed or 8-speed transmissions, so they can get away with 4Low + 8th Gear which is close to 4High + 1st Gear but more torque.

5. No Carnity Marshals have #1-3 above, so back to original quick rule: when driving with Carnity, use 4High  

@Mohit Gurnani that FJ stock is just waiting for the owner to unleash the sleeping lion, more practice will wake it up mate 😊👍🏻 , btw straight before turning left >> https://www.instagram.com/stories/zeddyiskandar/3269732911185976346?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igsh=MWIzNm40NzZ0ZTdieA==

2 minutes ago, munkybizness said:

@GauravSoni, I’ve just managed to lose my wallet this morning and I’m running about trying to hunt it down and deal with all the ID issues. Will have to bow out until I resolve this. Thanks so much for trying to accommodate me though 🙏🏽

hi Mayank hope you get it back soon with all the IDs and cards. Similarly while paying for coffee today I realized I lost my ATM/debit card. Blocking & getting new card was easy through app, but now I've to wait until after new year to get new card... means no spending this long weekend 😭

28 minutes ago, GauravSoni said:

@Zed @Imteeaz @munkybizness I will add you guys to the drive… let me know if you. Are up for it!!! Please confirm

Confirmed Captain 👍🏻

38 minutes ago, Gurcharan Mehta said:

coming from dubai, i see online the last gas station is around Jebel ali, is there any other gas station closer to the starting point, if so would appreciate the coordinates please, thanks

Adnoc Faya 891 is 10mins from meeting point:

ADNOC Service Station | Al Faya (891)
800 300
https://maps.app.goo.gl/d8v4yPK1uhCRRWNfA?g_st=ic

33 minutes ago, Gary F said:

Update is it’s gonna be in the shop a few days , wasn’t coolant, on actually putting it on the ramp it’s the classic Jeep pentastar 3.6 crankshaft seal leak, on a engine with only 33k ! @Srikumar

think it's a Jeep problem, I also have it on my Grand Cherokee Hemi WK and chose to ignore it by doing top-ups if the oil dipstick says so.,, it's good your car is still under warranty so you should get that job done for free, for the rest of us old car & out-of-warranties, the labor cost doesn't justify simple top-ups 😂

32 minutes ago, Looper said:

But I found that Carnity discipline is very strongly embedded in all of us. After the first few min, the short convoy spontaneously decided on a convoy order and followed it till the end without breaking it. Frankly, I was very proud of the culture of discipline we have at Carnity and the strong sense of safe driving etiquette that comes along with it.

Put me in 2nd Lead and that discipline will be tested 😂 *joking, i won't separate the convoy, most probably 50m left & right from marshal's footpath 😁

3 minutes ago, Srikumar said:

 

a mix of rolling dunes

please use "undulating", "wavy" or "reverberating"... i have phobia of the word "rolling" when it comes to this marshal 😂

@Srikumar  adding to waitlist for second drive in same area 😁

Hi bro @Hisham Masaad, gonna miss those morning prayers at Adnoc with you and the "Yalla Push!" battle cry before every climb, but am sure will cross path and see you in the dunes somewhere someday. All the best in whatever wherever you choose to settle in the future 👍🏻

So maybe this is on everyone's mind 😅; with all the weather predictions of a rainy week, would we start later around 10am to let the sand dry or just enjoy the mud at 8am? 😂

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CznniqApuD2/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== 

Yalla habibis @mainpasir @Naveen Raj @Anoop Nair @Santoso Marjuki , we will have a shorter drive this time (exit 10am), but we will focus only around the high dunes around Muhammad Ali / Patrol Bowl in Sweihan. This is the dune that made me want to install supercharger on LC100 and the test lab for locals to try their new Patrol Y61 straight after show room.

Drive Details

Level:  Intermediate and above

Meeting time: 6:00 AM 

Meeting Point:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/qfbhiEgJWzbLYFCZ8

Type of Car: 5 Jeeps (1 WK Cherokee + 4 Wranglers)

What to bring along: Loads of water, snacks, smiles, enthusiasm and willingness to learn.

Approximate finish time: 10:00 AM 

MUST READ

Drive Plan

#4 Muhammad Ali / Patrol Bowl Sweihan:  (Plan 11-Nov)

#3 Bowls Galore - G Bowl, 4x4 Bowl, Hari Bowl, 360 Bowl:  (Done 5-Nov)

#2 Sweihan to Al Ain Airport Endurance Test (Done 28-Oct)

#1 Technical Backdoor to Nagra then Express Highway to Exit (Done 22-Oct)

Thanks Fred, hi @napsterboi first decide whether you want Inline-6 or V8. For GCC specs only LC marked VXR and Lexus LX470 are V8s, the rest like GXR trim are Inline-6. Then the price, below is rough estimate for current market 2023:

1998-2002 : non-VVTi 4-speed (20,000-30,000dhs)

2002-2005: non-VVTi 5-speed (30,000-40,000dhs)

2006-2007: VVTi 5-speed (40,000-50,000dhs)

Yes cheapest to buy is when there's a firesale (someone selling cos he has to leave country) and worst time to buy is during November - April where people want to have campings & picnics in desert 😂

As for Leads, most use Facebook Marketplace now to post sales. You can also join the FB group https://m.facebook.com/groups/1086805135325785/?ref=share&mibextid=I6gGtw

3. Bowls of Ramlat Sweihan then Faya Express to exit

We counted 7 bowls on Gaia, and we visited them all. The most famous Death Bowl was actually muddy due to the rain on prev night, but 360 Bowl and Gohan Bowl was better. When we exited Ramlat, it was on the exact point where there's an opening in the fence, and just outside the fence is Sweihan Pond waiting. There's an easy option from there to exit to Tilal Sweihan ADNOC, but since we wanted to test our fuel tank capacities, the convoy opted for a longer Faya Route. We side-sloped our way towards Faya ADNOC.

Levels:

• All the bowls are for Intermediate level, though FewbiePlus may be able to handle them, depends on how confidence they are climbing to exit the bowls (entering is always easy).
• Sweihan Pond to Faya is for NewbiePlus and above, lots of long range dunes for side-sloping or just driving 70 km/h on smooth flat sand.

GPX File:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AMLjwfuysAvQ0cUz41Zio8E5CvdRru8K/view?usp=sharing

Drive Video Highlights:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzVRVjwJpT4/

Relive Recap:

12 minutes ago, PETELCZYC PAJERO - luke said:

Getting some originals sorted out this week after some fiery conversations with the shop. 😆

WhatsApp me on 056-724-2156 and i can share some contacts who gave me good price on them.