victore

Tried diesel engine oil in petrol Land Rover?

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@treks This happens when you don't read all the information give. All the questions you have asked have been previously been answered in this thread itself. But since some people are too lazy and like to be spoon fed. Here goes nothing.

1:-  Flat tappet motors require ZDDP as a crucial lubricant between the cam lobes and the flat tappet, since ZDDP can destroy cat converters, it has been greatly reduced or eliminated in modern petrol engine oils. Without ZDDP the cam lobes wear out and the flat tappets don't remain flat anymore, which in turn effects the inlet and outlet valve timings, thus reducing engine performance, increased emissions, more fuel usage etc etc

2:- This means that almost all petrol engines can (according to some posters here) be run on diesel oil. No one has ever said that, so stop making up strawmen. 

3::- Petrol engines can be run on diesel oil is a ridiculous notion, only to the uninformed, like mentioned earlier read the ratings and numbers on your oil can, they will have a S followed by an another letter and C also followed by another letter as in SJ/CF. S stands for Spark i.e Petrol C stands for Combustion i.e Diesel. Yes some oils are only formulated for either petrol or diesel and they will only have a S or C rating. Also now you can find what is called mixed fleet oil, for companies that use both type of vehicles and don't want to faff around with buying two separate type of oils and they usually buy in large quantities.

4:- Its not bad advice, specially when it comes to running older Land Rovers 

More about Oil Ratings

http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/oil_quality_ratings.htm

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@amitaj, @Barry, @treks it's all about experience sharing here and no one forced anyone to do what Junaid has done.

Victore has asked for some advise and everyone helped with their piece of knowledge in whatever they can. I really appreciate if everyone uses this advice as a healthy and professional discussion than direct attacks.

We all know how much car manufacturers, dealers and oil producer share the stuff honestly from VW cheating the world, ZF lifetime gear fill instance, fuel mileage false claims, HP tall claims and so on. So if someone has done something with their own due diligence then we need to be more curious and try (if you can) without pulling him down.

With my beloved Pajero, until date I have been failed million times in Dubai with best of the mechanics including the dealership here and with big car businesses claiming 30 years experience under their belt, but I still try whatever I can within my reach to keep her alive.

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@desertdude, I respectfully disagree with everything you say, and repeat what I said earlier- you, and others are dishing out bad advice that is based on misinformation, half-truths, and dare I say it, contradictions.

Strawmen? My nearly forty years experience as an engine builder as well as a formal qualification in lubrication technology would suggest that I know whereof I speak when I say that diesel oil is bad for a petrol engine, regardless of the shape of the tappet. But here goes nothing...

21 hours ago, desertdude said:

1:-  Flat tappet motors require ZDDP as a crucial lubricant between the cam lobes and the flat tappet, since ZDDP can destroy cat converters, it has been greatly reduced or eliminated in modern petrol engine oils. Without ZDDP the cam lobes wear out and the flat tappets don't remain flat anymore, which in turn effects the inlet and outlet valve timings, thus reducing engine performance, increased emissions, more fuel usage etc etc

You contradict yourself. Besides, it is not the ZDDP (a form of zinc), that damages cat converters, it is the sulfur used in conjunction with ZDDP that can sometimes damage converters.

21 hours ago, desertdude said:

 This means that almost all petrol engines can (according to some posters here) be run on diesel oil. No one has ever said that, so stop making up strawmen.

What makes old Land Rover engines different from any other engine that has flat tappets, petrol engines included? Especially given the "fact" that ZDDP has been removed from petrol oil? What lubricates the tappet/camshaft wear surface in these engines?

21 hours ago, desertdude said:

Also now you can find what is called mixed fleet oil, for companies that use both type of vehicles and don't want to faff around with buying two separate type of oils and they usually buy in large quantities.

True, but these oils contain specially designed additive packages that can never perform as well as an additive package that was designed for either petrol or diesel oil. The result of this is that the best qualities of both petrol and diesel oil are lost in the mix, which means that  engines that run dual purpose oil are deprived of a large part of the lubricity of the oil. The only way to limit the damage caused by poor lubricity is to replace the oil every five minutes, which is what fleet owners using fleet oil do.

Engine oil 2.jpg

What does this diagram prove exactly, given the fact that viscosity and lubricity have nothing to do with each other? You further say that-

On 2016/10/26 at 2:54 PM, desertdude said:

So don't just blindly follow "manufacturers recommendations" use your own 2 cents as well

Why would anybody go against "manufacturers' recommendations", when that manufacturer has spent billions to develop an engine, and to test that engine to make sure that it will last if the "recommended" oil is used, and replaced at scheduled intervals?  What does it prove when you change the oil at a fraction of the recommended service interval?

If you do this, how do you know how "well" your oil of choice, as opposed to the recommended oil, works? In short, how do you know that your "2 cents worth" is better than the oil the engine was designed to run on?

These questions are not "strawmen". These are valid questions that need clarification before as I said previously, some innocent soul destroys his engine because he believed someones' "2 cents worth" above the recommendations of the manufacturer of his car.

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If you once again would have read the information offered, you wouldn't be asking these questions. First link I posted tells you what ZDDP is and what are its negative effects are on cats and how it helps flat tappet motors. How is that contradicting one's self?

No one has ever said that its only Land Rover engines!!!! Once again making up your own assumptions!!! Go back and read once again, its a very well know issue in the classic car and hot rod community since they also mostly use flat tappet motors i.e mostly old American V8s which what basically the Rover V8 is, an old Buick engine from the 60s

Fleet owner replacing oil every 5 minutes !!! -_-  So organisations like the American Petroleum Institute and big Oil companies Like Chevron, Total, Castrol etc etc are idiots who spend billion in research and come up with globally recognized standards and then formulate oils to meet those standards, so customers can expect are certain level of performance from their lubricants. But they all must be wrong because you said so!

Nobody is telling you to go against manufacturers recommendations, information is being offered ( which you obviously don't read ) if it makes sense to you fine, if not, no one cares. But manufacturers are also known to tell porkies every now and then. Why is VW paying out billions right now ? ZF sealed for life transmissions giving up the ghost because of not changing oil. 

Here is a link which might also help if you ever bother to read it 

http://www.aa1car.com/library/zddp.htm

worn camshaft and lifters

Worn out cam lobes and flat tappets due to lack of ZDDP 

Some quotes from it
"All engines require a certain amount of anti-wear additive, be it ZDDP, molybdenum or other ingredients. Back in the 1980s, motor oils usually contained around 1500 parts per million (ppm) of ZDDP.

In the 1990s, the American Petroleum Institute (API) reduced the amount of phosphorus allowed in motor oils to 1200 ppm. This was done to help prolong the life of the catalytic converter and oxygen sensors, both of which can become contaminated over time by exposure to phosphorus in the exhaust. All engines use a small amount of oil between oil changes, so reducing the phosphorus content was seen as a necessary move to prevent emissions failures as vehicles aged.

In 2005, API cut the amount of ZDDP again, this time lowering it to 800 ppm. This includes the current API 'SN' category as well as ILSAC GF-5 motor oils. Their reason for making the change is that modern engines with roller cams or OHC cam followers do not experience the same levels of friction and pressure as flat tapped cams in older pushrod engines. Consequently, today's engines can get by with less anti-wear additive -- which is true.

The trouble is, there are still a lot of older vehicles on the road that have flat tappet cam pushrod engines. What's more, flat tappet cams are still the most economical choice for many performance engines, including classic muscle cars, vintage sports cars, street rods, hot rods, circle track racers, drag racers and even NASCAR. Most of these engines are using high lift performance cams with stiffer than stock valve springs. If conventional motor oils (including synthetic oils and synthetic blends) are used in these engines, cam wear and cam failure can occur. "

" Because diesel engines operate at higher temperatures and loads, diesel oil contains higher levels of ZDDP than motor oils for gasoline engines. Diesel oils and contain more detergents and dispersants to deal with soot and combustion byproducts. Because of this, diesel oils such as Shell Rotella or Mobil Delvac have sometimes been used in performance engines with flat tappet cams. But like gasoline motor oils, the amount of ZDDP allowed in diesel oil has also been reduced to protect exhaust emission controls. Currently, up to 1200 ppm of ZDDP is still allowed in diesel oil. "

Your "valid questions" have been answered and clarified many many times over now, if you still don't get it, there is nothing more I or anyone else can do about it.

 

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Resurrecting a dead topic, here is video I came across, its a flat tappet cam Vs roller bearing cams and mentions ZDDP ( Zinc ) oil if you want to run a flat tappet cam, also useful for people who have no idea what flat or roller cams are. 
 

 

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