ChrisW

Have you guys checked if it’s actually the driver creaking…? 😉

In defence of the Jeep however…this run down to the star dunes led by @GauravSoni was by far one of the best drives I’ve ever done, in part because of the sheer sense of adventure in transforming my Jeep into what was basically a buggy and tearing into the desert. Trips like this help you overlook a lot of downsides!

As you guys will know I drive often with @Luke K P here in AD, both for Carnity and we’ve done a number of recce drives up here in the evenings etc, so I’ve watched both our cars tackling a lot of terrain back to back. I can appreciate the RR’s cabin, bed capacity and power. It’s a car you can easily cruise at 140 on the highway in peace, and on the sand you can push hard. You can take a lot out with you easily. I feel the Jeep can get in and out of places that many cars can struggle with - with a small lift and some suspension changes, it rides the sand incredibly well. The breakaway angles, clearance and articulation are difficult to beat. I feel the Raptor is more biased towards being a reliable road car, and the Jeep is slightly compromised by being a pure 4x4. The Raptor’s front IFS is a weak point, and it has a comparatively small fuel tank. Clearance can be an issue as well. The Jeep’s steering car be vague on the road, and you have to very carefully manage your speed/momentum/power on the sand to get the most out of the 3.6L normally aspirated engine. The Jeep can be prone to niggling maintenance issues, but the large availability of OEM and aftermarket parts, and capable local garages, means most issues are an easy fix. On the road I think the Raptor is easily the best choice. As a daily driver with occasional off-roading I would also pick the Raptor. For off-roading I am torn…I regard my Jeep as a great project car and a capable off-roader…I’d love more power and space too… In the end you won’t be making a mistake either way. Go drive both and get the one that makes you smile. …I’ve got photographic evidence…

@_Herman_ I’m fairly sure they all share the same automatic gearbox, a ZF 8-speed. The final drive ratio can change between models. My 2024 Rubicon is 4.56 (default is usually 4.10). I’d expect the 2L to be 4.10 or 4.56 too.

Ahhh interesting, thanks for explaining @Noufal. I understand more generally that Stellantis can be a bit selective on which dealers get which cars, and they've got some unusual mixes now that the 4xe has been withdrawn. I think we have a couple of people in the club with the 2L turbo, let's see if they post. From discussions that we had, it didn't seem to make much difference with their off-road driving. Here's a comparison of the 2L vs 3.6L engines on the dyno: The graph is a bit of a pain to interpret - but basically the black lines are the 3.6L engine (HP is the line that slopes upwards peaking at 6700 RPM, torque is the one that rises up to 2600 RPM and then sits fairly horizontal) and the green lines are the 2L engine (power slopes upwards from 2500 RPM, peaking at 5600 RPM, torque is the line that sharp goes up peaking around 3500RPM and then sitting level). Couple of observations: 1.) The power band in the 3.6L is wide and progressive, but you need to get all the way to near redline to get all the power. 2.) The power band for the 2L is tighter (3500 RPM to 5600 RPM), but you get most of the power above 4000RPM. 3.) The 2L has marginally less power (6 HP is not much), but has more torque. Initial thoughts: The two cars like-for-like are pretty much the same weight. The 2L is very likely to be able to go everywhere the 3.6L can go. The 2L might require more careful handling during a dune climb (staying in the RPM power band). The increased torque might be nice on the road, and probably won't make much difference in the desert. So at this point I think it now comes to price and maintenance...!

Just to double check @Noufal - Jeep today manufactures and sells three engine version for the Wrangler - 2L turbo, 3.6L V6 and the 6.4L 392. The 3.6 is still very much in production.

Looking forward to driving with you in the future - do stick at it and enjoy it a drive at a time! 😁

@DG707 If I could offer one piece of advice…the time spent preparing now on the newbie/fewbie level drives will never be time wasted later on. The drives we do at those levels might feel basic, but what you’re doing is solidly building and refining the foundations for a set of skills that you will later rely upon and need to use reflexively. …it’s also a horrible feeling if you find yourself suddenly needing skills you didn’t practice earlier on…a position many of us have been in and learned from! 😂

I’ve just gone back to look at some recent videos - this is a drive I did recently with a roughly similar dune face. I should add that whilst this wasn’t a Carnity drive (we were testing some recent car maintenance ahead of a club drive), this is at the mid end of an Intermediate skill level. You’ll see that we took a line that was more curved and progressive. This allows you to build and carry speed, minimise slip angle (the difference between where your car chassis is pointing and the angle you’re going over the sand), and take a controlled line onto the ridge. You might need to watch this directly on YouTube - link here: https://youtube.com/shorts/PWMFGZsIJzs?si=G3vV4fW-T-sK_ZTy

You can’t beat the physics in the end. Technique beats power every time. If you watch even some of the Dakar race footage, you’ll occasionally see guys with 1000hp cars attempt a line on a soft face and get nowhere. You really don’t need much in the way of angle, sand softness (ie softly packed and loose), and tyre contact area before you’ll simply never be able to gain the traction to start and sustain a climb. At that point you’re just a fast moving bunch of different vectors between speed, momentum, gravity and slip angle. You only need to make a small error and it’s over. Does look great though, as most stunts do…but to me that’s not the essence of desert driving, and not what our drives are about.

I think the MVP award goes to your passenger @Beide Worku…that was a tough drive to sit through!

Thank you @GauravSoni for an exceptionally well led drive, and shout out to @Alexanderrr for finding a path for the convoy. The first part of the drive through Qudra was definitely a test of patience and determination. The terrain there is technical enough to need concentration and focus, and so bumpy as to beat you up a bit. The following sections through Ajban and into Sweihan were the reward however, with many long flowing lines for us to enjoy. The stats speak for themselves - everyone did a great job keeping the discipline and pace, and you all demonstrated the high level of skill and ability gained for a great many drives. Was a pleasure being out with you all and hope to do so again soon. Here’s a quick selection of clips from our day out:

Thanks everyone, was a real pleasure driving with you all last night. We had some excellent driver discipline on show, with everyone being patient, helpful and driving well. We had some excellent lines through the desert which allowed us to practice side-sloping, up and over crossings and some easy ridgelines. There was a few reminders to us that traction on soft sand and the soft edges of ridges requires more attention to steering and directional control and less use of power. We also at the end of the evening got to practice lots of practical car maintenance! 😄 I hope everyone made it home safely and I look forward to seeing you again soon. In the meantime here’s a few flashbacks from the drive…

And my view!

A great morning out with a top group of off-roaders! Thank you for leading a very relaxing drive @Luke K P. We quickly found the promised long-range dunes and entered a collective flow-state…everyone focussing on driving, enjoying the terrain, minimal radio chatter. Your brave attempts to cut a path through a few ridges gave us the opportunity to shovel…which actually gave some natural breaks and a chance to stop and enjoy the desert a few times. @Aser Congrats on the 100! Great to see it. @Ahmed Farouk It was a pleasure to follow your new Jeep! I’m biased, but it looks great and you’ll be zooming on the dunes before long. @JC_E it was good having you with me in the middle of the convoy too - good driving today, you make that LC move very well on the tight terrain. Finally to say, whilst I was further away, @Soap your driving today was good - it’s excellent to see the skills coming along. Couple of PoV videos from earlier…

That was a tremendous IM drive @GauravSoni - really nicely led. Good lines, supportive vibe in the group…a good skills refresher to start 2026 with. I especially liked the format we used in the later part of the drive - navigating point-to-point, minimal radio, maximum emphasis on each driver using their initiative. To me this is the essence of an IM drive - each driver and car taking responsibility to conduct their best individual approach whilst moving in convoy. It would be good to see more drives like this to help further consolidate skills. Was a pleasure being out with all of you, and hope to see you again soon. Sharing a double-perspective video of slightly creatively using side-sloping to intercept a descending ridge-line. I wouldn’t usually attempt this (and it was hard on the engine), but the particular shape of this sand and line brought it together: And then a cut together of a few clips:

I’ll be there supporting ✊🏻

Hey guys, was a pleasure being out with you this morning - and specifically with @Frederic’s convoy. The low visibility didn’t hold us back and we enjoyed a gentle drive through the rolling dunes, giving us a chance to simply enjoy being in the desert and practice driving in convoy. The sand was firm and generous to us today, meaning we only had a small handful of refusals and one stuck. The fog was unusually persistent today, not really lifting much until at least 1030. The main feedback I would offer as general takeaways would be: - If you have a refusal, it’s good to announce on the radio quickly and succinctly so the convoy doesn’t get too far away from you - Following the line of the car ahead of you is important; however you will still need to navigate the path for yourself (avoiding getting too close to a soft ridge/edge, or churned up areas that become difficult to cross) - Each of us will come to learn the details of driving our own car and the techniques it requires, for example with an “up and over” ridge crossing the longer cars may require slightly more momentum and to lift off the gas later to avoid cresting. Overall nicely driven and I had fun being out with all of you. I very much hope to see all of you again, where we can test ourselves and learn from less generous sand! @Jabir

Hey guys, hope you all had a good new year’s last night! Was a pleasure driving with you, and thank you kindly to those generous souls who brought refreshments for us all to share. Looking forward to more in 2026!

All good, all in.

Sorry @DP1011, I’ve had to drop - have come back from travels in Europe with an unwelcome cold!

Excellent drive this morning @Ale Vallecchi, thank you for leading us through the quite varied terrain and achieving our goal of the express crossing! You all made it very easy to be a support team member today…everyone drove well, good use of the skills and consistent approach to the different terrain types we encountered. Well done! Also @Hani crest king do you want your air miles added to Emirates Skywards or Etihad Guest program…? 😉😂