Shadab Khan

Hi @desertdude, I can't tell if you are sarcastic or not, but I am curious to know what you think of old Defenders. They are revered by countless, and they are famous for being really tough. On the other hand, I have also read on defender forums that people (like me) who haven't really had experience with it, and who fantasize about owning one because retro is the new cool, have no clue about the numerous problems old defender used to throw at the owner – something to do with oil leaks and the comfort level of a tractor. Nevertheless, there are fan forums filled with tall tales of old defenders overcoming anything thrown at it, but I think by now I have learnt that a lot depends on the drivers and what the car was outfitted with apart from the engine and a tough chassis (e.g. tires). I do like the idea of new defender, on paper at least. LR claims is the strongest defender they have built. I of course have no reference and no way of knowing what "strongest defender" even means here. On the other hand, I see that LR is again trying to pitch defenders to people who have on road bias but want a "cool" retro modern car, whatever that means. So what do you think? Are you a fan of old defenders? If so, how do you see them against their peers from the late 90s e.g. (Land Cruisers)?

Ouch! I set the search params to Range Rover 08-09 and was wondering why this had a 4.4L engine as opposed to the one your referred to above (5 V8).

https://dubai.dubizzle.com/motors/used-cars/land-rover/range-rover-sport/2020/6/8/sport-hse-2009gcc-specs-fully-loaded-first-2/?back=L21vdG9ycy91c2VkLWNhcnMvbGFuZC1yb3Zlci8%2Fc2VsbGVyX3R5cGU9JmJ1eWVyX21hcmtldD0maXNfc2VhcmNoPTEma2lsb21ldGVyc19fZ3RlPSZwcmljZV9fZ3RlPSZ5ZWFyX19ndGU9JnllYXJfX2x0ZT0ma2lsb21ldGVyc19fbHRlPSZrZXl3b3Jkcz1hZGFwdGl2ZStjcnVpc2UmaXNfYmFzaWNfc2VhcmNoX3dpZGdldD0wJnByaWNlX19sdGU9Jm90PWFzYyZvPTM%3D&pos=11 @Rahimdad

Aameen!

Thanks a lot @Gaurav, really appreciate your comments and help! 😊

UPDATE: I have now bought the car!! https://dubai.dubizzle.com/motors/used-cars/jeep/grand-cherokee/2020/6/10/aed1714month-2015-jeep-grand-cherokee-summ-2/ Settled for 80K. Ideally, I would have gotten something without air suspension and with two hooks attached etc, but we'll see how this one turns out! Acknowledgement: Literally all of you helped me get a car that I feel good about. You helped me calibrate my expectations, gave me a reality check, and offered your generous help and time. For that, a BIG THANK YOU (in no order): @sertac @Frederic @Rahimdad @Chaitanya D @Gaurav @desertdude @Brette I will update this thread once the car has gone through (in this order): 1) A mechanic for fault finding so I can get it fixed while I still have warranty 2) Off-road upgrades to be able to join newbie drives (still figuring this out)

Oh! Makes sense. I will read some more about the differences (my source is jeepgarage.org).

This one doesn't, it'll cost me 1000 AED to get the tow hooks attached from what I found out online.

Hi @Gaurav I love this response so much! Thanks for sharing the personal experience of driving with your family. So I will likely do all three types of activities as you wrote, but will not do desert as much as others: I mostly plan to drive around Wadi trails, and beaches, and few "gentle" desert drives (definitely not bashing, I don't have the heart for it!). Actually, I have finalized a Jeep GC 2015 Summit (5.7L V8, 50400 km mileage) which has enough driver assist tech (adaptive cruise etc) to please me and the wife. The car still has an on-road bias, but has the muscles and the means (with a few changes) to do well off-road. Price is great, car is under short warranty (expiring end of next month), did 5/5 on mechanical/electrical inspection (only needs cleaning and minor paint work), has like new tires, good amount of brake pads left for 80k. So I am going for it As I am still unsure how serious off roading I might end up doing in reality, I think this is a good choice. If I get serious about off roading, I will make GC my main car, sell the Traverse, and get a proper off-roader (e.g. Wrangler) and go from there. Thanks a lot for help everyone! I will post an update as my purchase progresses.

Automall said their used car extended warranty covers electricals and suspension as well. Given the concerns shared by @Rahimdad, @Gaurav (in another thread from 2017 on Carnity), and @sertac, I think having a warranty will just be assuring. If you're curious what has scared me so much from my past experiences - I used to live in the "Rust Belt". In this area, used cars were a nightmare that I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy. Problems would appear out of no where, and repair costs were so expensive, that poor-me graduate student is forever sore from that memory. So if I see warranty, I run to it

Wise words @Chaitanya D! Although I am fine spending up to 100K in buying + fixing a used car assuming I can use it for the next 7 years (that's the plan at least!). I have been bitten too many times in buying very old used cars so for now I'd rather avoid the trouble I am now trying to find if I can extend warranty on a used car I am looking at that meets all requirements, but is nearing end of its warranty period.

Terrific advice @Rahimdad! I will call al futtaim about the warranty. Hi @Brette, thanks for the response. I have the same question as sertac about your reservations against V8. Do you think it is an overkill or actually bad? I don't plan to do proper dune bashing (my reference is the tourist trips just fyi ). If I do end up with this particular model, I will make sure to add good off road tires and will look at options for leveling kit and wheel spacers as you suggested. Thanks a lot!

Hi @Gaurav, thanks a lot for your response. Please see my answers below: 1) Yes, my traverse is actually fine, and I am keeping it because I need 7 seats infrequently, on those days I can do without driver assist features. The biggest change in thinking was accepting that keeping two cars is okay, and probably better than finding one do it all. 2) No because it seems if I go with Jeep GC, I can get reasonable tech assist (ACC+rear cam) with strong if not the best off road performance. It is not as big as traverse or other 7 seats so wife says she doesn't find it intimidating. In any case it seems Jeep may be lower maintenance than discovery or other cars. Also my interest in ACC comes with past experiences where it made highway cruising a breeze. In UAE where people brake and accelerate too often on the highways, this can help. 3) I have a family of 5: parents+wife+baby (car seat) so need either a 3rd row or a wide enough comfortable back seat. It will be great to be able to get both off roading and basic driver assist (ACC) stuff. I might over time sell the traverse, but not in a rush because at this point don't expect it to depreciate all that much and I can test if I really need 7 seats. Also since I am not selling my traverse, 2nd car budget now revised down to 100K there fore most Prado and GX series cars are out of budget, and Jeep GC looks like a strong contended even otherwise. Hi @Rahimdad mind sharing more? I also read on other Jeep forums about this engine and it appears people are mostly satisfied as long as they did regular maintenance - I am willing to do this. @Brette pleased to e-meet you! Would you mind sharing your experiences with Jeep GC? Particularly: 1) What you enjoy on road, and 2) If it has limited your mobility off road in any specific situations? 3) Anything else you might like to share? By the way everyone, I am looking at this Jeep :https://dubai.dubizzle.com/motors/used-cars/jeep/grand-cherokee/2020/6/10/aed1714month-2015-jeep-grand-cherokee-summ-2/ Agent told me owner might do 83k AED, this is the summit edition so lots of tech (some irrelevant to me e.g. dvd player and lcd), powerful engine etc. 50k mileage and dubizzle inspection report says 5/5 (attached). Warranty is ending in July. Does anything look concerning (if anyone has time to spare)? Jeep GC Summit 2015 CarReport.pdf Jeep_GC_Summit_Inspection_Dubizzle.pdf

Hahaha omg @desertdude looks like someone pissed you off real bad Sorry dude! But I am not THAT guy, nor do I have a fear of driving. As I said, its a lack of trust on other drivers on the road that bother me – changing lanes without signaling, tailing you even on the lanes that are not meant for overtaking, taking a left turn without signaling from two lanes right to you, cutting you off so close you have to break to save yourself, rear ending into you even when you honked – all of these have happened to me in the UAE. It's the things that are not in my control that make me nervous. Also, please this article: Road rage is very high in UAE with a lot of angry drivers, so I do think that getting flashed/honked/tailed is not a good indicator of who is a good/confident driver and who isn't, though I do agree with you one must not hold up a parking lot with no access to a rear camera I am not a new driver btw, driven over 200,000 KM and Alhamdulillah no accidents as of yet (excluding one time in 2011 when a deer jumped right in front of my car from bushes adjacent to a road in rural New England, I was within speed limit). I have done basic off-roading on trails in Alaska, British Columbia, Hawaii, etc which did not require any special skills or training. I am new to serious off–roading, and given the more raw and natural trails in UAE + desert, I figured I should educate myself on what real off roading is all about. Also I promise I won't be THAT guy NO! I very much appreciate @sertac's comments. I have now scheduled a viewing of this GC, hearing of his positive experience with his 5.7L engine: https://dubai.dubizzle.com/motors/used-cars/jeep/grand-cherokee/2020/6/10/aed1714month-2015-jeep-grand-cherokee-summ-2/ Price is a bit on the higher side, will put a deposit and test drive after AD ends the travel restrictions.

Hi @desertdude, please see response below: 1. As I mentioned in my other comments, its partly that I feel a bit nervous on busy roads given how irresponsibly a lot of people drive. The other reason is my wife would also like to drive the car we buy. 2. I was referring to the "New" Discovery (2017+) but even then I do believe its a capable off roader – just not the way LR has positioned it in GCC market (i.e. no option to buy one with 18" wheels, off road tires, and rear diff lock). None of the four trims offer an "off road package" or anything like that. This is what I meant – that they want you to think of LR as a luxury car with leather seats being the premium package (nothing wrong with that, but seriously is that why one looks at LR?), where as these new discoveries appear to be plenty of off-road capable but are hampered by how LR is trying to sell them here. 3. No sir! I came here for the same reason one goes to a trusted friend – you know the advice may not be what you want, but it is the one you need. Please read on below! Hi @Gaurav, thank you so much for your suggestions. Actually I did a test drive and as you suggested tried out all the driver assist features that Volvo offers. Unfortunately the only feature that worked reliably was adaptive cruise. Other features like lane centering and steering control etc failed to function, I tried engaging them several times. It appears UAE highways are not "marked" as Volvo needs them to work reliably. Not to mention this car had poor suspension (felt over a bump and a pothole) and wheel alignment issues – I felt the steering vibrate at moderate speed (80–100 KPH). Not to mention this car HAD been through the Volvo 120-point check already! Also it was curiously missing the air suspension which was standard in the trim I saw in 2017. Given all this, and overall hesitation shared by you and other experienced members here, I have decided to look away from Volvos for good. As of now, given my budget and the advice I have received here, I am thinking of holding on to my 7 seater traverse and seriously considering Jeep Grand Cherokee in Summit or Limited Plus trims. All Summit versions as far back as 2015 offer the driver assist features we are looking for and appear to be off road capable. Some of the recent Limited Plus trims also have the driver assist features. In this option, I have two concerns: 1) Engine is 5.7L V8 – is it going to be more problematic than smaller engines, e.g. the newer 3.6L V6 that Grand Cherokee comes with? 2) Grand cherokee summit comes with QuadraLift air suspensions. I have read several bad things about these air suspensions. Anyone has any experiences to share on the two points above? I am continuing to read more online and also looking more closely at the Lexus models suggested by Gaurav.

Thanks @desertdude for sharing your perspective, greatly appreciated! Please see my comments below: 1) This is my number one worry – parts. I did end up putting a 1000 AED holding deposit on the XC90 today. Fortunately car won't be available for test drive until later this week so I can sleep on my decision and think about the extremely useful advise I have received on this forum. 2) I am fine with paying for regular servicing actually, not a problem. I am convinced XC90 won't cut it for off-roading. I am also convinced my needs are for two separate cars, and now it's a matter of deciding on a 7-seater family car (XC90 or not) with driver assist and safety features, and an off-roader, which I think will end up being Jeep given the great parts supply and community support here.

I have to admit: a part of me know its foolish to buy a Volvo in this country. I also hate to admit that you all are so right in the points you have brought up. Nevertheless let me share with you more on my thinking: 1. I did look at recent sales data. For the features that car has and for the amount of mileage I will put on it in the next 2 years (~15k per year), I am expecting at least 70K after 2 years. This car would still have 1 year of warranty left at that point so resale shouldn't be as low as older Volvos, which do not have as many selling points as the post-2016 Volvos when they were redesigned. Many families, particularly from EU where Volvos are popular, still see it as the ideal family car (for safety, 7 seats, isofix in 3rd row etc) and driver assist features which are particularly popular with female drivers. 2. Honestly, I think Land Rover's sales strategy is seriously flawed in GCC. They have neutered a car that had off-roading built into its DNA. They want you to think leather seats are a better premium than a rear diff lock in a Disco. 18" wheels are not even an option in "higher" trim! It pains me to see what they have done to it. That said, precisely for its off-road capabilities, I was looking at getting a Disco. What discouraged me was the fact that in addition my purchase, I might have to spend money to beef it up a bit so I can off-road without worries. Disco sport is not an option for me as it is not 7 seater. 3. You are absolutely right. If I do end up with the Volvo, I will plan to run it until it dies as a commuter+family car, and get a separate off-roader later this year. Your advice is extremely sensible. I think I have a bit of savings built up and I need to be more careful with my money. The only explanation I have is that I value driver assist and safety features – driving (on road) in UAE makes me a bit nervous. Not that I want to be a careless XC90 driver, but knowing that it has emergency breaking, several collision alert and avoidance tech etc is a bit reassuring. XC90 is also one of the few cars my wife is not intimidated by to drive herself so that is another reason. Lastly, my traverse is actually fine, but it is a bit too big. My wife refuses to drive it. Mainly the driver assist and safety features which are class leading at this price point (below 150K) in a 7 seater. Only other 7-seater that can offer all of these features below 150K price point is a CX-9 but we did not like it in a test drive, and they are only marginally better in resale than Volvos as far as I can gather. Also wife finds XC90 non-intimidating. Lastly, both wife and I don't like the styling on Land cruisers or Patrols, and these cars with driver assist features (higher trims) are actually even more expensive than discoveries in the used market! I had originally zeroed-in on Disco because LR has better parts supply in UAE than Volvo, but ultimately decided against it as I am now convinced it's not as capable of an off-roader as many other cheaper cars. At the moment a jeep wrangler looks pretty attractive to me as a dedicated off roader.

Hi Sertac and Frederic, Thanks a lot for your responses! I realized as I typed my post that I am probably only trying to convince myself I'll be fine with a volvo , as has been said in other posts they are great cars but UAE is not a good place to own them. That said the deal is too good, I think I'll bite. 128K AED including comprehensive 1yr insurance and extended warranty (so I'll get it with 3yr/60K warranty): Paying ~130K for car, 4.2K for warranty, and signed up for Al futtaim FAB credit card that will give back 6K AED in cashback so totaling 128K. https://www.al-futtaimauto.com/used-cars/11151753-volvo-xc90-inscription/ Al futtaim automall refused to lower the price even 1 dirham, but at this price point I am not complaining! On the other hand, they offered me very poor value (30K) for my 2017 Chevy traverse (GCC spec in warranty) so now need to figure out a way to sell it for better value. Anyways thanks for the help!

Hi All, newbie here looking to get into off roading. I am hoping to change my Chevy Traverse into a 2017+ LR Discovery or 2017+ XC90. Budget is ideally around 150k, stretchable a bit. Things important to me: 1) 7 seats, 2) Off roading capability, 3) Driver assistance features (e.g. Adaptive Cruise) I settled on Disco as it provides all of the above (Adaptive cruise in specific higher end trims 2017+ models). I am hoping this car will be my go every where car (office+off road). Reason to hold back currently is I am neither entirely convinced by Disco's off-roading (Jeep does it better) nor it's driver assist features (Volvo), so Disco is really a compromise. Jeep has no 7 seater and Volvo's XC90 while being an AWD with air suspensions that offer 10.5" of ground clearance in off-road mode, is no substitute for a 4 WD. I am now in a position where I have come across an amazing Automall Certified Volvo XC90 deal (at 55% depreciation vs new for a 2017 high trim, with 52k KM on odo) and now wondering if I should get this car and instead of spending roughly 40-50k more on a Disco, get a used Wrangler later. My off-roading will be limited to say once a month trips in Oct to May. I do fancy taking camping trips in desert or going into wadis/mountains for hiking/camping (I imagine mild unpaved roads but not chassis bending rock crawling) but my harsh reality is a job that keeps me fairly busy and I have a 4 month old newborn that will prohibit much of the stated fancies in the next few years, barring mild off road trips with a safety net of fellow drivers. With all these thoughts, I feel properly paralyzed to make a decision. Now the XC90 is a great deal, it has all driver assist features (Adaptive cruise, lane centering, heads up display, stop and go cruise control for traffic, emergency breaking, panoramic roof, rear collision monitoring, blind spots, park in/out, 360 camera, leather interiors, cooling seats etc) that will make it an excellent commuter and family hauler over long distances (e.g. to RAK from AD where I live). I can even add a 2 year warranty and make it 3 yr/60k warranty for 4200 AED extra that should help somewhat against poor resale and electricals going bad as they often do in such a loaded car. On the other hand, it has 20" alloy wheels. 1) Given all this, I wonder if there are any XC90 owners who can share what sort of off-road trips they have taken (could be simple even). 2) Alternatively, does it make sense to have one do-it-all car (Disco) or better to separate the daily commuter from off roader? 3) XC90 engine is a 2L twin turbo with 320 hp power, with 20" wheels. It's an AWD. Would it be possible for me to drive over sand with lower pressure? Assuming driving over dunes is a no go..