207_gti

P0299 low boost turbo or super charge limp mode – How to diagnose Peugeot, BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, Skoda, Opel, Dodge, Land Rover So I’ve gotten quite a few questions from people all over the place about having turbo issues etc. One thing to keep in mind about these motors is that “limp mode” (when the ECU “disables” the turbo) is not always turbo related. Limp mode is there to protect the engine from damage. A few (but not all) reasons as to why the car could go into limp mode: Faulty sparkplugs and/or ignition coil(s) Fuel pump problem Vacuum pump problem Timing Turbo problem Faulty sensors Air leaks In this guide a will touch on a number of reasons as to why the car can go into limp mode; but mainly I will focus on things related directly to the turbo, how to diagnose the issue, and how to solve them. The majority of this text will be my own, but I will also include text and images that has been provided by E-tuners. A turbo is a great way to get more power out of a car; but when the car goes into limp mode you soon realize how big of a difference that turbo makes. When the problem persists, it can become very frustrating for the owner, not to mention the thousands it will cost to replace the turbo. So to know what to look out for and how to diagnose the system in order to determine if the turbo is in fact in need of replacement is absolutely vital. In the case of the PSA/BMW 1.6T motor, it is best to become familiar how the turbocharging system works. So first, Let’s get some basic knowledge of it. How it all fits together A turbo charger is a very simple device. There are 2 sides to it, the exhaust side, and the compressor side (which is where the incoming “fresh” air goes into the turbo). Each side has a “propeller” and they are connected to each other via a shaft. When the exhaust gasses start to turn the exhaust propeller, the propeller on the compressor side has to turn too. It is this turning of the propeller at very high speeds that compresses the air. The faster it turns, the more “boost” (compression of air) it creates. The problem is, that if the amount if compression cannot be controlled, the turbo will just continue adding more and more compression to the incoming air, until the point that the engine cannot handle it anymore; in which case the engine will sustain damage. So, to control the amount of compression, a “wastegate” is used. A wastegate is simply a valve that directs more or less exhaust gases to the exhaust propeller. Closed wastegate = more exhaust gas = more compression, Open wastegate = less exhaust gas = less compression. There are two types of wastegates, an internal (is part of the turbo) and an external wastegate (separate from the turbo). In the case of this particular turbo, an internal wastegate is used. Essentially, think of the wastegate as the “accelerator pedal” of the turbo. A wastegate is still a mechanical part (as is the turbo), but you still need something that will control the wastegate. For this there is an “actuator”. The actuator is connected to the wastegate via the actuator rod and wastegate arm. Two nuts on the rod, on either side of the wastegate arm are what hold it in place. The rod simply pushes (opens the wastegate) or pulls (closes the wastegate). But again, the actuator too is only a mechanical part; so you still need something that can control it. In the case of this particular turbo, PSA/BMW does things in a bit of an unconventional manner. Usually it’s the actual boost that acts on the actuator. However, in this case, its vacuum that acts on it. For this vacuum to be generated there is a vacuum pump. Essentially it is the vacuum pump that makes the actuator rod either pull or push the wastegate. However, again, the vacuum pump is also mechanical. So, in between the vacuum pump and actuator comes the Boost Control Valve (BCV). The BCV is an electronic valve that is connected to the ECU and it is this valve that will determine how much of the vacuum is sent to the actuator, and how much of it will be directed away. More vacuum = actuator rod pulls = wastegate closes = more boost Less vacuum = actuator rod pushes = wastegate opens = less boost The BCV is a very important part of the system because if the vacuum pump was just directly connected to the actuator, the ECU will have no way of controlling the amount of boost produced, and eventually the engine will be damaged. So that is how the system works at producing boost. But there is still two more essential pieces to the puzzle, the sensors and the diverter valve, and another valve that isn’t generally associated with turbos, but also plays a part in this particular case There are various sensors that calculate many different things. But for the purposes of this article I will only cover some of them. There are oxygen sensors that calculate how much oxygen is present, so that the ECU will know how much petrol is needed. Then there is a MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor and a MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor. All of these are simply there to calculate how much air is flowing into the engine and at what pressure the air is, etc. And based on these readings the ECU then calculates how much fuel should be delivered and what kind of boost should be produced. Next is the Diverter Valve. If the turbo is producing boost, and you take your foot off of the accelerator pedal, there will still be some boost in the intake system. When you take your foot off of the accelerator pedal, the throttle plate closes; so the excess boost has nowhere to go other than back to the turbo. If, at this point, the pressurized air cannot be redirected before it reaches the turbo, it can eventually destroy the turbo. This is because a propeller is aerodynamically designed to only be turned in one direction. If the pressurized air is to enter the turbo while the throttle plate is closed, the air will try and force the compressor propeller to turn in the opposite direction of which it was designed to turn. The reason this can cause turbo damage is because the exhaust gases will be turning the exhaust propeller in the correct direction, but then the unwanted boost will try to turn the compressor propeller in the incorrect direction; which places a huge amount of twisting force on the shaft which connects the two propellers. So, a mechanism is needed to release this excess boost before it gets to the turbo; which is known as the Diverter Valve (DV). This is sometimes also referred to as a “Blow Off Valve” (BOV). There is, technically, one key difference between the two. Both have the same purpose (to release excess boost when the throttle plate is closed), but a BOV releases the boost to the atmosphere (which gives the loud “PSSSHH” sound associated with turbocharged engines), whereas a DV diverts the excess boost back into the intake pipe (between the air filter and turbo). And that’s it; that is how the entire system works. Not entirely AS complicated as you might have thought, huh? Lastly is the Canister Depollution Valve. This is also an electro valve, and is part of the intake manifold pipe. The function of this valve is to be open when boost isn’t needed, and to be closed when boost is needed. When it is open, it allows petrol fumes from the petrol tank to pass through to the intake manifold. If the valve remains open when boost is needed, the boost will be directed to the petrol tank, instead of reaching the intake manifold where it is needed. Diagnosing problems So, only now that we have a better understanding of the system as a whole will we know how to test the different components to see where the problem lies. Diagnostics software Perhaps the most important part is getting a diagnostics cable. This is to connect to the diagnostics port of the car to find out what error code has caused the car to go into limp mode. You will need an ELM327 OBD-II usb cable, and some software on a Windows-based laptop. There is plenty of software out there, but a good and free bit of software to check and clear fault codes is EasyOBD. When the check engine light comes on, its an indication that there is some sort of malfunction, and the ECU will record a certain code which helps to identify what kind of problem it is. In the case of turbo trouble, the most common codes will be P2622 and P0299, which means “turbocharger underboost” and “turbocharger boost not detected”. There are plenty of other codes that will put the car into limp mode, but these two are the most important in determining whether or not there is a problem with the actual turbo. Another common fault code is that there is an air leak. In which case you should inspect all the turbo hoses and pipes, and perhaps even the intercooler. In order to read the fault codes, plug the serial end of the cable in to the diagnostics port of the car and the USB side into the computer. Put the key into the ignition and just turn it to the first click (do not start the engine). Then, on the computer software, click on the button to make a connection with the ECU, and then go into the fault codes section. Testing the components We’ll start off with the easy ones and work our way through the entire system. I will break down all the parts into a new section to make it easier to follow. Diverter Valve From the factory the diverter valve is manufactured to withstand 1 bar (14 psi) of pressure. On a stock setup this is the pressure that the turbo supplies. However, the blow-off valve still fails. Inside it has a rubber membrane, which at some point will tear. The company that makes the blow-off valve is called Pierburg, and they make blow off valves for VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group) and these blow-off valves can be found in a range of VW, Audi, Skoda and Seat models. The blow-off valve in the VAG cars are manufactured to withstand pressures higher than 1 bar, which makes it perfect for the problem. Now the entire VAG unit will not fit our setup, but all we need are the internals. So, all you need to do is to go to VW and purchase the blow-off valve. Then you just have to swap out the VAG unit's internals with that of the Peugeot's. In some cases the internals don’t quite work with the stock diverter valve housing. In which case you would have to use the entire VAG unit, and to fit it to the turbo unit. To do this you would have to remove the metal clips in the bolt holes, and also make the bolt holes on the diverter valve slightly larger. I recommend also that you put a small washer between the DV housing and the bolt head to ensure that the bolts hold tight. Turbo Remove the intake pipe that goes to the turbo. Look inside the turbo to see if the propeller blades are still ok. They should all look the same and have no damage on them. It is normal to sometimes have very SLIGHT damage on one or two blades; but remember that turbo blades need to be perfect to work best. Turn the propeller. If it cannot turn, it means that the propeller(s) have seized and a new turbo will be needed. Next, VERY GENTLY try to wiggle the propeller up and down, side to side, in and out. If there is no movement the shaft is still perfectly fine and is another good indication that the turbo does not need replacing. Actuator rod In order to inspect the actuator rod, you will need to remove the Oxygen sensor and heatshields to properly see it. Sometimes, the nuts that hold the actuator rod and wastegate arm together come loose or even fall off. Check to see if the wastegate arm is in the correct place on the actuator rod. The nut closest to the actuator should be 14 complete turns from where the thread ends on the side closest to the actuator. While the nuts are loose, check the movement of the wastegate arm. You should be able to move it quite easily along the actuator arm. If there is no movement the wastegate is faulty and will require a new turbo. BE CAREFUL WHEN TIGHTENING THE NUTS AGAIN. Make sure that they are tight, but do not use TOO MUCH force, as this could bend the wastegate arm, and will just add a whole new headache for you. If all seems well, tighten the nuts and move on to check the movement of the actuator. With your right hand, place your thumb on the actuator, and use your index and middle finger on the round bit on the actuator arm. Move the round bit towards the actuator. There should be roughly 1cm of movement. If there isn’t, either the actuator is faulty and will require a whole new turbo assembly, unless you can get a used actuator from somewhere. Boost control valve As I mentioned earlier, PSA/BMW have done the turbocharging thing in a bit of an unconventional manner. Usually when a car is off, the wastegate would be closed, and will open when the car is switched on. In this case, however, the wastegate is open when the car is off, and will close when the car is switched on. A simple way to test the BCV is with a syringe. Pull the piston of the syringe (but don’t pull it completely out). Now, remove the hose from the actuator, and place the syringe nozzle inside of it. When you switch on the car (i.e. let the engine run) the piston should be pulled inwards due to the vacuum. If it does, you automatically know that the BCV and the Vacuum pump are fine. However, if it doesn’t get pulled in, then there is an issue with either one of the two. To figure out which one, you will need some extra vacuum hose. Make sure the car is off and remove the hose that is on the vacuum pump, and attach the one side of your spare vacuum hose to the vacuum pump. Now attach the other side of the hose to the syringe. Again, prepare the syringe in the same manner as you did the first time. Now start the car and see if the syringe’s piston gets pulled inwards. If it does, then the vacuum pump is fine but there is a fault with the BCV. This may be something simple like just the electrical connector that isn’t making proper contact, or the BCV itself needs replacing as the piston inside of it has become stuck. Vacuum pump If the syringe does get pulled in, the next test will narrow the issue down to the turbo, or actuator. Connect the vacuum pump DIRECTLY to the actuator. Then take the car for a drive. When you push the accelerator pedal down, the car should boost up very quickly, and will actually overboost as the ECU has no control over how much boost is produced. Since there is no control, I strongly advise that you do this with caution, and only do it once. If no boost is produced, there is an issue with the actuator or turbo Sensors Lastly would be to have the sensors check. Since the sensors are there to provide the ECU with vital information, if they are faulty and give the ECU the wrong readings, it will cause issues. I hope this little guide has been helpful, and will aid in solving your issues if you should encounter any.

it depends what the petrol station did. they might have damaged a sensor or something like that. best thing is to take it to peugeot so they can check what error code is.

currently Peugeot and i are discussing this issue

A turbo is a great way of getting more power from a car. But, a turbo is still a mechanical part, and as such can fail at any time. There are a number of reasons as to why a turbo can fail. In the case of Peugeot's 1.6 turbo (THP) engines; the absolute #1 reason for the turbo failing is that the oil feed for the turbo is rather small and lacks a teflon coating on the inside. The problem: When hot oil cools down it leaves a residue. what this means for a turbo is that over time that residue builds up until it completely blocks the inside of the turbo oil pipe. When this happens, the turbo cannot receive lubrication or oil cooling, and so will cease up. The solution: To replace the standard pipe with a braided stainless steel PTFE (teflon) coated hose. The hose has a slightly larger inside diameter than the standard pipe, and has the teflon inside which will prevent oil buildup. Cost is AED160 which you can send to me via Western Union, and I can send you the new hose via Aramex (cash on delivery) or at a meetup. I HIGHLY recommend these hoses, as a mere 160 Dirhams is much cheaper than the 10K+ it would cost to replace the turbo.

A turbo is a great way of getting more power from a car. But, a turbo is still a mechanical part, and as such can fail at any time. There are a number of reasons as to why a turbo can fail. In the case of Peugeot's 1.6 turbo (THP) engines; the absolute #1 reason for the turbo failing is that the oil feed for the turbo is rather small and lacks a teflon coating on the inside. The problem: When hot oil cools down it leaves a residue. what this means for a turbo is that over time that residue builds up until it completely blocks the inside of the turbo oil pipe. When this happens, the turbo cannot receive lubrication or oil cooling, and so will cease up. The solution: To replace the standard pipe with a braided stainless steel PTFE (teflon) coated hose. The hose has a slightly larger inside diameter than the standard pipe, and has the teflon inside which will prevent oil buildup. Cost is AED160 which you can send to me via Western Union, and I can send you the new hose via Aramex (cash on delivery) or at a meetup. I HIGHLY recommend these hoses, as a mere 160 Dirhams is much cheaper than the 10K+ it would cost to replace the turbo.

A turbo is a great way of getting more power from a car. But, a turbo is still a mechanical part, and as such can fail at any time. There are a number of reasons as to why a turbo can fail. In the case of Peugeot's 1.6 turbo (THP) engines; the absolute #1 reason for the turbo failing is that the oil feed for the turbo is rather small and lacks a teflon coating on the inside. The problem: When hot oil cools down it leaves a residue. what this means for a turbo is that over time that residue builds up until it completely blocks the inside of the turbo oil pipe. When this happens, the turbo cannot receive lubrication or oil cooling, and so will cease up. The solution: To replace the standard pipe with a braided stainless steel PTFE (teflon) coated hose. The hose has a slightly larger inside diameter than the standard pipe, and has the teflon inside which will prevent oil buildup. Cost is AED160 which you can send to me via Western Union, and I can send you the new hose via Aramex (cash on delivery) or at a meetup. I HIGHLY recommend these hoses, as a mere 160 Dirhams is much cheaper than the 10K+ it would cost to replace the turbo.

i got mine on amazon.com . this is the same 1 as ive got: http://www.amazon.com/ELM327-OBDII-CAN- ... 020&sr=8-1

get urself an ELM327 obd-ii cable, and download the Lionheart software from Etuners (http://www.etuners.gr/en/index.php?s=12&t=358) that way u can check what the faults are when u get the check engine light, and can also clear the faults

Want a little more out of your 207? Thanks to the conservative factory settings of these cars there is some great power to gain. Etuners, the worlds best 207 tuners knows exactly how to extract more power from your 207. They have successfully achieved up to 400Hp and 500Nm from these little 1.6L turbos; so they know what they are doing. By remapping the cars ECU you will unleash more power and increase fuel economy whilst still retaining the peace of mind of the safety parameters set by the manufacturer. Stage1 software is AED1300 and will take the power up to 210hp and 290Nm* Stage2 software is AED500 (provided that you have already purchased Stage1) and will take the power to 220hp and 320Nm** Stage2+ (included with the price of stage2 software) will take the power to 230hp and 340Nm** Stage3 software is AED500 (same applies as for stage 2) and will take the power to 240hp and 360Nm** Stage3+ software (included with the price of Stage3 software) will take the power to 250hp and 390Nm** Stage4 software will take the power to 350hp and 460Nm*** A complete tuning package (as many remaps as needed for stage 1 to 3) is AED2000. This would be a once off payment, and you never need to pay anything for other maps. *the most common remap, which requires no additional modifications **requires additional modifications ***requires additional modifications including bigger turbo charger, forged pistons and conrods...NOT recommended for a daily driven car Send me a message or email me at [email protected] for more info.

a meet and drive is a great way of getting to know people and spending some quality time with the cars. so, id like to find out who would be interested in going for a Peugeot drive. We'll arrange something once we can get a nice number of people interested.

most likely what ur hearing is the thrust bearing. if it is the case, ur gonna need a new clutch kit. i had the same issue on mine and ended up replacing the clutch kit for the dealer. although the clutch plates were still fine, the bearing cannot be purchased separately. since urs is manual i assume u have an RC.

depends where u are. at many filling stations (adnoc, emarat etc) there are tyre places. go ask them. u dont HAVE to replace it with the same brand

So far so good. I did have a bad patch with them for a little while. but that is to be expected with peugeot. all over the world they are renowned for their bad service and unavailability of parts. but i befriended the service manager at the SZR centre and hes an absolutely fantastic guy. whenever i have a problem, and personally checks the car out for me. I do love my little peugeot. especially now that ive got it up to 230hp and 340Nm (soon to be 250hp and 400Nm)....these prince motor is actually incredibly strong and it amazes me what this little 1.6 can do. ive been here 8 years; students at SAE studying applied multimedia

ah ok. i guess in the gulf the active is a 1.6...elsewhere its a 1.4. anyways, vvt stands for Variable Valve Timing. basically its like the vtec systems they have on the hondas. as for the manual...no its not like a proper manual, as u dont have a clutch. but the "manual" is just tip-tronic, i.e u choose the gear and when to change the gear by moving the lever

glad ur happy with the purchase. but why the 1.4 active instead of the 207 1.6 turbo?

no problem. sorry if my explanation wasnt very clear...i did try to make it as basic as possible. but yea peugeot is aware of these issues and they know how to fix them. when i had problems with mine i took the car apart, did my own tests and showed them how to check it all. unfortunately peugeot itself does not give the service centres enough info; so if i have a problem or a solution to a potential problem, i relay the info to them. im very happy with the SZR service centre. if ur not happy, do urself a favour and befriend Mr Shiva (the manager). absolutely awesome guy and will help u out in any way he can. regarding ur second question; i live in al ain, and for the first 3 or 4 services i took the car to the al ain workshop. i was not happy at all with them as the manager is extremely rude. so instead i choose to take my car to the SZR centre. so those are the only ones ive dealt with. but as i said, i am extremely happy with SZR. ok, now my questions. which rcz are u looking at (156hp auto or 200hp manual)? and why the rcz instead of another hatchback?

i dont own this car personally; but my car (peugeot 207) has the same engine; so i can only comment on that. as for reliability, its like any car. if u look after it well it will reward u with problem free motoring. however, the uae's climate does affect cars. so here are likely problem u could face: 1. Diverter valve. not sure if it uses the exact same 1 as the 207; if it is, there have been cases of the rubber membrane becoming torn, in which case u will experience boost loss. 2. The standard hoses (1 going from turbo to top boost pipe, 1 going from boost pipe to intercooler, and 1 going away from the intercooler) are made of rubber. these hoses have been known to get small crack in them due to heat and vibration. 3. blown turbo. again due to the heat (and strict emissions laws which actually cause exhaust temps to increase) and also a relatively small oil feed, the turbo may not receive sufficient lubrication; in which case it will seize. 4. boost control valve becoming stuck. ok a little technical knowledge. the amount of pressure a turbo can produce is controlled by the wastegate. a wastegate is just a valve that directs the exhaust gases to (more pressure) or away (less pressure) from the turbo wheel. but to control the wastegate u need something to push or pull it. this is called an actuator. on the peugeot turbo cars, the actuator is controlled with vacuum. i.e no vacuum = wastegate open = no turbo pressure.....vacuum = wastegate closed = more pressure. in order to control the actuator, a boost control valve is used. basically, the boost control valve is the only thing which can be controlled by the car's computer. only by controlling the boost control valve can the computer manage all the other apsects. so, the problem with the boost control valve is that it can become stuck open, which means: vacuum cannot be sent to the actuator = wastegate open = no turbo pressure. 5. canister depollution valve. this is also an electro valve like the boost control valve (i.e is controlled by the car's computer). the purpose of this valve is to be open so petrol fumes can be released from the petrol tank when turbo pressure is not needed. However, if turbo pressure is required but the valve fails to close, the turbo pressure will not reach the engine (also known as a "boost leak"). sometimes this valve does become stuck

in order to help u out u will have to give some more detail about the car. what year is it? 1.6 or 1.6 turbo?

*sigh*....i really wish people would READ THE OWNER'S MANUAL! that is exactly why it is given to you! the oil warning lamp usually indicates that there is a problem with the engine oil pressure. Take your car to peugeot and let them look at it

FANTASTIC NEWS!!! Finally the issue has been resolved and the car is running 100% again. Thanks Peugeot for pushing the matter. But mostly; a HUGE thank you to Mr. Shiva at the SZR service centre for his effort, time, patience, persistence and resilience. After 3 days of continuous work we could finally track the problem and mend it. Let me also apologize for my previous, very "colourful" (albeit somewhat censored) post. I was extremely frustrated and completely lost my cool. To Peugeot: can I ask you to please show your gratitude towards Mr. Shiva as I have and always will? He is a true asset to the company; and to be completely honest with you, the best manager I have ever dealt with. He handled this whole situation absolutely perfectly. He is how I feel each and every single manager should be; but since they are not, it makes him utterly extraordinary. If it was not for him, I would've, without the shadow of a doubt, fixed the car and sold it. He, along with the techs that worked on my car, have completely restored my faith in the company; and as such I feel they truly deserve to be rewarded for it. So again; a HUGE thank you!

i say u should thing very long and hard about this. yes my ranting was about the turbo model, however, the 207cc has the same engine (just doesnt have the turbo). the 207cc also has some maaaaajor issues (just do a search in google). at the end of the day, u just have to think about it. peugeots are not reliable cars, and when they do start giving problems they just dont stop giving problems

really need to vent about this!! had a boost issue for a while now, and after replacing some parts i eventually took the car to peugeot. while i was at it, had them do the 80k km service as well. so gave the car in, and 2 days later (today) they called me and said the service has been done and the boost issue sorted. now since i dont have a car i had to hop on the bus and head through to dubai (from al ain). got there and took the car for a test......BOOST ISSUE IS STILL THERE!!!! so i tell the peugeot tech to get in and ill show him that the issue is still there. we drive off and the same old s%&t of hardly any power and INSANE amount of lag was still there. i told him to look at the boost gauge, i was getting 5psi max.....stock boost is 15 psi. this IDIOT kept asking me if im sure it should be 15. WTF?!?!?!?! ur a peugeot "expert" u moron, U should know that the pressure should be at least 15psi!! so they plug in their diagnostic equipment and check everything, and find out that there is indeed a boost issue. WHY THE F$#@ DIDNT THEY DO THIS TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS WORKING BEFORE THEY TOLD ME TO COME AND COLLECT THE CAR?!?!?!?!?! *sigh*...so the wait continues to get this sorted. quick note; if ur thinking about buying a peugeot...DONT! when the car is in perfect working order i absolutely love it; could not be happier....but ffs when it starts giving s#@t it just doesnt stop; and peugeots crap service and complete lack of expertise about their own products just doesnt make it worth the hassle.

have a look at the water/coolant levels!!! if it is low then the car WILL overheat

there could be a few reason for this. perhaps the waterpump is faulty. have u had a look at the water levels? does the water/coolant level constantly seem to drop? when is it that the car overheats; while driving or at idle?

peugeot will not repair the gearbox. it is their policy to REPLACE parts, not fix them. so ur better off taking it to an outside agency for repair