Best engine decarbonization available

[desertdude]

11 minutes ago, hanif said:

I guess there is no arguing with the logic of the ill-informed, and especially if the ill-informed gets pissed off when he is called out on the rubbish he spouts.

As a professional mechanic with 40 years of experience fixing paying customers' cars, as opposed to an "old school mechanic with some backyard tinkering "skills" at best,  I am in the happy position to be able to tell a charlatan and ignoramus from someone who has something valid to say, and who can make a real contribution to the forum. 

It is just a pity that so many members of this forum are likely to ruin their engines because they followed your stupid advice.

So take that and shove it where you want....

Oh my feelings are so hurt now, what will I ever do !!! 
No one wants to say a word earlier, but when someone does, all of sudden a bunch of butt hurt "professional mechanics" with their panties all in a twist with centuries of experience fall out of a tree.

Once again you have nothing to counter any argument presented other than "oh look at me I am professional mechanic working on cars since the time of dinosaurs. so what I say must be set in stone"  and go on, on a pathetic diatribe, if your sanctimonious behind was so concerned about the members on this forum, should have chimed in earlier with your pearls of wisdom and enlightened us all.  

Your only contribution here in this thread is that of a drive by crap slinger, so yeah, keep on slinging that crap, because its seems like thats the only thing you're good at. 
 

[desertdude]

And FYI Mr "40 year professional mechanic" Water Injection is nothing new, Many pro sport companies make water injection kits, specially for motor sport purposes to keep the inlet temps down in forced induction cars, and to stop premature detonation knock in others, they even mix it with ethanol and alcohol but never over a 50/50 water and ethanol mix, and a side effect of this it keeps the insides of the motors clean.  

There is a thing called Google go look it up!

Edited October 31, 2016 by desertdude

[Barry]

One thing I've learned since I started working on cars and machinery is that experience is good but nobody knows everything and every day is a school day. 

Good to hear you're making some progress @Gaurav you should never be scared to open an engine if there's a problem that needs fixing though. If it's put back together properly there will never be any issues. I'm guessing problems you had before with idling and overheating after rebuilds where down to the incompetence of the mechanic. The most important thing when putting an engine back together is cleanliness. If you're putting heads back on and the mating surfaces are contaminated with oil, grease, dirt there will be issues. Too many people here try to overcome issues by covering everything in shellac and silicon. In all my years, I have never ever put shellac in an engine and never had issues. 

[wildcat]

1 hour ago, Barry said:

One thing I've learned since I started working on cars and machinery is that experience is good but nobody knows everything and every day is a school day.

9 hours ago, desertdude said:

if your sanctimonious behind was so concerned about the members on this forum, should have chimed in earlier with your pearls of wisdom and enlightened us all.

9 hours ago, desertdude said:

Nothing of value..

@desertdude, come on now, if you are going to continue "spouting rubbish" as someone else said, you must expect to be called out on on it, and resorting to personal attacks does not help your credibility at all- it only makes you look stupid.

But here is the thing- you demand fact and figures, while you don't supply any of your own to support your claims. Referring people to opinion pieces on the internet means nothing, except to show that you either don't know anything about the topic, or that you expect people to believe anything you say because you've read it on the internet.

But to facts and figures. You are of course right that water injection is nothing new, but you are not telling the whole story, and I believe that @hanif will be along shortly to call you out again. Anyway, water injection on competition engines is computer controlled, whereas in your method, there is no control over the amount of water the engine ingests.

In a computer controlled system, the amount of distilled and purified water injected amounts to only a few parts per million relative to the total air/fuel mix, and contrary to what you claim, the primary purpose of the water is not to keep inlet temps down, but to partially quench the detonation flame, (just like EGR does) as well as to create small amounts of hydrogen when the water molecules are ionized.

If you didn't know, the hydrogen increases combustion pressure when it burns, which then boosts power, but for this to work as intended, the ECU makes adjustments to valve timing, ignition timing, fuel injection timing/pulse width, and other settings whenever water is being injected. If it did not make these adjustments, the engine is likely to not run at all, or shut off when the water is injected.   

This however only works in high compression engines, which forced induction engines running on petrol typically are not, which is why water injection is mainly used on diesel engines that have higher compression ratios. Moreover, water injection is typically used on new engines that have no carbon, so there is nothing to remove. Get it now?

As for your method to remove carbon with water, do you even know why it works? I guess not, so if you are interested, here is what happens, assuming that there is carbon in a petrol engine to remove in the first place...

Anyway, if you get the amount of water just right at any given engine speed, the water molecules get broken up, but not enough to create hydrogen because there is not enough heat and pressure. What happens instead, is that the oxygen content of the water is released, which raises the combustion temperature, which if it is high enough, burns off the carbon, or some of it at any rate.

If you get the amount of water wrong at any given engine speed, the water quenches the combustion flame, so instead of liberating the oxygen in the water, you create super-heated steam that only loosens the carbon. Some of it may be expelled through the valves, but much of it is turned into sludge that lodges in the rings, where it works as grinding paste. This is particularly true if the engine had been burning oil for a long time, which can cause major carbon deposits, but you knew that, right?

But there are another problems if you create steam in the engine, the first being that steam washes the oil film off the cylinder walls, so while you are adding water all day long, as you say can be done, you are removing ALL the lubrication off the cylinder walls, which I am sure even you will agree is NOT a good thing.

(If you did not know, during normal combustion, (without water being poured into the engine) the detonation flame never reaches the cylinder walls or the top of the piston, which is why the oil film on the cylinder walls can be maintained.) 

In addition, some of the steam escapes past the rings to condense in the crankcase, where it forms sulfuric acid when it comes into contact with most types of combustion products. Apart from contact with heat and oxygen, sulfuric acid is one of the main drivers of the process that breaks down oil additives like detergents, anti-foaming agents, and viscosity improvers (you've heard of those, right?). So while you think you are removing carbon, you are actually destroying the oil in the engine, which in all fairness to other members of this forum, you should perhaps have mentioned.  

So yes, professional mechanics will call you out when you make silly, unfounded, and dangerous claims and statements- not because they don't like you (I'm sure they don't), but because they know a lot more about the topic than you do, or ever will. 

 

Edited November 1, 2016 by wildcat
edited to add

[Carnity]

Everyone please mind your language and refrain from direct attacks here in a public forum.

Respect everyone advise/experience, and feel free to challenge or debate but professionally.

Members ignoring the professional courtesy will have their future comments under moderation, which sometime may take few days to clear before showing up here.

[Gaurav]

I fully understand the frustration of professional mechanics to accept that something long standing issue getting resolved with such a simple fix.

In my case a lot have been done professionally with Barry garage and several other places. Thanks to all as everyone did their fair share and still little rattle and doof doof noise always persist. Pointing to stuck valve over and over again coz of carbon buildup or age of the engine. 

Instead of rebuilding engine I prefer plonking another used motor, so actually speaking I was ready for any experiment and I have taken same route for trying the water technic. Taking no sides.

I understand that it will or may coz some internal issue and that's why I poured total of 50 ml per instance to test the water, lol as I actually have nothing to loose if I blow this motor but always open to any positive suggestion.

Just for the record @desertdude did advise me to add oil additive and change oil soon, once experiment become successful,  so I assume he knows the repercussions of adding water to produce steam to clear the carbon.

Does anyone know how we can test this experiment if it worked or not apart from visual and audible changes.....? For example run the HC test at tail pipe? Run the compression test? check the oil color and other properties?

[desertdude]

@wildcat See thats how you respond, I have no issue at all at being called out at all, but if you are going to come at me with a disrespectful condescending nasty attitude with guns blazing then expect me to return fire as well. I'm a grown @ss man who has no tolerance for internet keyboard warriors 

You've come back with a very reasonable and logical explanation putting you point across as best as you can as to why you disagree to me, while some have just posted nothing but ad hominem attacks while flashing their "professional" credentials. 

I'm not going into the whole argument right now because this argument has been going on decades and the internet is full of pages upon pages from forums and blogs for and against this. Its like the mac vs pc debate, there is no clear winner. THATS WHY I posted two methods, one a ghetto fix and one where involving machines, pumps and solvents etc etc. You are free to choose any or none at all. And this wasn't meant for public consumption anyways. I know the OP very well for I dunno maybe over 10 years now? I know very well his technical know how and experience and abilities and he knows me and my abilities as well. I just needed to tell him have you ever seen an engine with a blown head gasket where coolant leaks into the cylinder and when you tear into that engine, how that one cylinder and piston is gleaming and spotless as it just rolled of the factory floor and he got what i was trying to saying. While you cant get exact amount of water injected by feel, so the procedure is repeated a couple of times with different amounts and durations, then add a little cleaning agent to the oil go for a good spirited drive to knock loose and expel any crud out the pipe and then an engine flush and new oil and filter. And you are done. 

At the end I appreciate you calm and civilized response and there is nothing in your well written post I disagree with completely
as @Barry said no one knows everything about everything all the time, life is a continuous lesson, you learn new things everyday and from the weirdest sources. Anyone who thinks that yes now I know everything there is know about a certain thing is the day their downward spiral begins. If you don't agree with me or I've put out erroneous information, feel absolutely free to disagree and point out the flaws or present a counter argument, that ok what I think you said is wrong because x,y,z and we can have a healthy debate over it, and share our knowledge and experiences, and maybe even come to a mutual conclusion.  

Anyways since you didn't know the back story and now the OP has mentioned it as well, it was one the last ditch efforts to resolve a long standing problem, which he already has spent a lot of time and money on. So before tearing into a motor or replacing it all toghter. Its was worth a try.  

Cheers

[desertdude]

1 hour ago, Gaurav said:

I fully understand the frustration of professional mechanics to accept that something long standing issue getting resolved with such a simple fix.

In my case a lot have been done professionally with Barry garage and several other places. Thanks to all as everyone did their fair share and still little rattle and doof doof noise always persist. Pointing to stuck valve over and over again coz of carbon buildup or age of the engine. 

Instead of rebuilding engine I prefer plonking another used motor, so actually speaking I was ready for any experiment and I have taken same route for trying the water technic. Taking no sides.

I understand that it will or may coz some internal issue and that's why I poured total of 50 ml per instance to test the water, lol as I actually have nothing to loose if I blow this motor but always open to any positive suggestion.

Just for the record @desertdude did advise me to add oil additive and change oil soon, once experiment become successful,  so I assume he knows the repercussions of adding water to produce steam to clear the carbon.

Does anyone know how we can test this experiment if it worked or not apart from visual and audible changes.....? For example run the HC test at tail pipe? Run the compression test? check the oil color and other properties?

You can get one of these from Fleabay or Amazon to have a look inside

 

Similar device a doctors shoves downs ones orifices to have a look whats going on inside!!!

 

 

[Barry]

27 minutes ago, desertdude said:

You can get one of these from Fleabay or Amazon to have a look inside

 

Similar device a doctors shoves downs ones orifices to have a look whats going on inside!!!

 

 

You can get an ever cheaper one for $10-15 that works on android phone or tablet. Check aliexpress. 

 

[Gaurav]

Here is the video of water suction experiment. Every instance had 50 ml water sucked through vacuum hose directly into intake manifold.

• Day 1: Tried twice in first attempt with over a minute gap.
• Day 2: Poured four times in second attempt with over a minute gap in all times and drove hard around the block.
• Day 4: Poured twice - (last shot).
• Removed a liter of oil and added 1 liter Rislone engine treatment today.