samamara

6 minutes ago, Niki said:

🤫 just take the credit and move on!  Samamara already has so many ‘likes’ and ‘wow’ she’s not even paying attention any more! 

@Niki 😂😂😂

I appreciate every one of them, even if they are sometimes undeserved 😂! But now I'll keep my eyes on you when I post one of my shots 😂😂!

2 minutes ago, M.Seidam said:

This is a second hand bank funded LWB wrangler if it’s me . If extra comfort is of concern it is the second hand bank funded LWB Super safari ( both to be checked properly to find clean one and for the later bit more pricy than the wrangler ) , if it’s me I would sacrifice the little extra comfort and get the peace finally 🤣

 

Thanks @M.Seidam - I'm starting to lean back toward the Wrangler again after some scared me away...this conversation has helped me to see that some of my fears were unfounded, though I've still not yet decided. As others have mentioned, I need to test drive a few options before truly knowing which ones I want. Though now I have to make sure I understand completely the differences between all the Wranglers 😂😂😂. At this rate I'll be driving my Pajero for ages more! 

8 minutes ago, Frederic said:

That's a fantastic shot, and i guess the Mk4's sensor allows you to boost your ISO a bit more safely ? 

I tend to keep it below 3200 on my Mk2, knowing that noise would start to creep in.

Thanks @Frederic ❤️ it's one of my favourite MW shots. yes, the MK4 does allow you to go quite high with the ISO, but that shot is actually at 3200 😃. 

3 minutes ago, Hisham Masaad said:

Thank you @samamara, but in think from what you have mentioned above, would highly recommend .....🤣🤣 you must know by now

Thanks @Hisham Masaad 😂 I do know but as I said, that's now a hard no for me 💔. The idea that it's a bit tight in the back for grownups (which you can guess by looking at it) is a bit discomforting (literally and figuratively 😂), but the fact that the back seat windows don't roll down is the ultimate deal breaker. As I mentioned, my desert expeditions are mainly for photography (and camping ❤️); having windows that don't go down is just not feasible in any way, sadly. Though I do appreciate the love that you and your fellow FJ-ers have for the vehicle - which does seem amazing in every other way - it's just not for me 😔. 

5 minutes ago, Ashok chaturvedi said:

@Frederic I have came have come once before and carry my EOS 5D  Mark IV cannon with several lens but lost my wide angle and cant affoard to replace it. Have 3 other lens 24-70 mm, 16-35 mm and zoom 70-200 mm. 

 

Your 16-35mm will still give you a lovely shot! I Also have a 5DM4 and I use a Tokina 11-16mm on it which, unfortunately, is made for a crop sensor. I can still use it but not down past 14mm without significant vignetting so even at 15-16mm you'll get lovely wide views (which I'm sure you know already ). That lens, by the way, is not so expensive and has given me very clear astro shots (see attachment taken in Rub al Khali last Milky Way season); even if it's for a crop-sensor you may want to consider it. You can give mine a go on Thursday night if you want, once all is said and done with our shoot . 

6 hours ago, M.Seidam said:

Hi @samamara 

first of all thank you for your post , yet useful discussion indeed for all .It is always not an easy decision when it comes to which is best. 

last year I came across similar cross road of what to choose and my second hand short list was Wrangler , Pagero and Xterra drove all of them as test drive ending up with 2012 Xterra. all the three were apparently clean after checking and at that time I didn’t want to spend lots of money so I found the Xterra the best of both world ( driving me to work and back home with daily almost 70 km on average , comfortable enough as a single driver , as well as my weekly desert capable powerful machine in sand terrain ) . Squeezing leaves was never a problem with regular steam wash😊

however if it’s a bank funded brand new I would have gone straight away for the Super safari SWB . 
If I am a fan of wadi and photography then its the rubicon no doubt be it SWB or LWB it’s your choice of space and number of passengers you would like to carry with you , not mentioning the handy removal of roofs doors .. etc and tons of mods “ RTA approved “ annual registration headache free and warranty .. etc 

FJ is great off-roader  but i am too claustrophobic for daily use as well as visibility was important as I was at the beginning of the learning curve. So it was out of my choice regardless new or sec hand . 
 

my humble advice :  short list your needs against the short list of the available  options in the light of the different opinions ( another reason why I like this unbiased community ) and I hope you get best what you are looking for . 
 

best of luck 🙏

Mohamed 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you @M.Seidam for your contribution and advice on this topic 😊. I'm hoping to go for something bank-funded yes, but not brand new. My father warned me (like a million times 😂) never to buy a brand new car, and I'd rather not go that deep into a huge monthly payment anyway. I've found lots of reasonably priced second-hand cars, though this thread is the first time I've heard of the need to buy a 'clean' car, so I'll keep that on my list of things to keep in mind for sure. 

To be honest my daily use of the car is not heavy duty or anything; I live less than 10km away from work and I live in the ever-lovely RAK so most daily needs are within a 20 minutes drive at most. My weekends are a different story, as you can find me anywhere in the country - desert, wadi, whatever - but that means a 2-5 hour drive depending on where I want to go. Fuel efficiency doesn't have to be a top consideration over comfort and noise in the cabin. Living in RAK also means that "RTA Approved" is not super important; things in RAK are a little...easier 😂. I've been asked to move the crash/bumper guards off my Pajero every single year and never have, which the guy at the testing centre thought hilarious 🤷🏻‍♀️😂. 

Thanks again, Mohamed - I will definitely take my short list and my needs together with all of this advice and hope I make the best decision!

2 hours ago, Hisham Masaad said:

Wish you all the best @samamara, hoping you decision will be the best for you. Look forward to see you in sand enjoying your new car

Thanks @Hisham Masaad - hoping for the best!

15 minutes ago, Niki said:

When @varunmehndiratta recommends a Toyota and @Hisham Masaad  a Jeep … we will officially declare peace in the Middle East  

@samamara … this has made a great read for us all … thanks for starting the discussion and for all that shared.  Keep us posted on your findings and decision! 

 

Thanks @Niki and to all who participated in the chat. I have a lot to think about and a bit of time to decide, but whatever I end up with I'm sure you'll all see it on a Carnity drive eventually ❤️ or in the wadis ! 

33 minutes ago, Niki said:

@samamara I almost am glad I found carnity ‘after’ I decided the car to buy!!!!! 😳 … your short list has got longer.

I don’t think there’s a wrong choice in the list given… if buying new using the banks cash - Jeep is the only new or nearly new car still on your list.  Photo trips where your passengers can stand as the roof is off and shoot freely cannot be rivaled.  Also go head out to the nearest dealership and go for a true test drive to get a sense of the road comfort and noise… our ears on this forum are programmed due to, as Gaurav calls it, ‘brand afinity’ … let your own ears and experince be the ultimate judge!  
 

My experience in Jeeps with the roof down… the novelty wears off very quickly on highways and dunes … however your Wadi adventures are a completely different game and that experience would I imagine add a completely new dimension (ability to look up and out as you cruise). 
 

 

@Niki Yes, my question definitely rated more answers than I was ready for 😂! You've really hit the nail on the head though; I think I need to go and try a few for real test drives. I would also like to stand up and stick my lens out of the roof 😂. You know I love the wadis as well and I have thought of having the roof and really enjoying; I just want to be sure that's not the only reason I'd get one 😉.

I must say though, on your note re: the brand afinity, I have gotten lots of great answers from everyone here, most of them seem objective, and I'm really happy and thankful to all for that 😊🙏🏼!

53 minutes ago, varunmehndiratta said:

As a JL driver and someone who liked Pajero but didn't buy one due to cabin noise some years back...i would say JL is not the quietest one in market however far ahead of Pajero in terms of overall cabin experience. So if budget allows i won't even compare Pajero or Xterra with JL. Haven't tried FJ ever so can't comment. Prado and Patrol are surely more comfi but limited flexibility on mods and somehow the overall feel/look don't fit into my liking

JK and earlier versions perhaps are a diff topic as they lacked the latest features. Though even JK i would rate better than Pajero or Xterra.

It's not fast but onroad if i have to drive at 100_120kmph i prefer my JL over my sedan a Volvo S90. The whole feel is just awesome. And offroading capability wise it's undoubtedly far ahead of most you mentioned.

I drive a stock Sahara, would have loved a Rubicon however most.ppl advised against it - suggesting that it's not as comfi as Sahara onroad. If i have to buy today would any day go for Rubicon - as once you drive a wrangler - road comfort and drive fun relation have diff definitions. I have no plans for mods, i love the clean stock look. However good part is if one day i will change my mind options are extensive - unlike in any other vehicle. 

Reg rear cabin - my dad as well as my 9yo both at any given day prefers wrangler over my sedan on a long drive (again not for fast drives but at relaxed one). Not my mom so much due to ht of entry point due to her knee issues. 😃

Reg AC - mine is new and till this time I haven't felt any issue even when in middle.of desert in middle of the day. Sure it's not as good as my Sedan or other high end SUVs - Toureg, XC90, X5 etc. Surely better than Pajero..

 

Last but a very important one the fact you can literally rip it apart - take the doors off, roof off, fold the front wind screen is something truly exciting. Already waiting for winters to come as now have all i need to take the roof off 😃

 

And forgot to mention - i am every weekend in desert with Carnity with stock wheels on Sahara. They are high profile AT, while i know @Ilya believes differently, we have had multiple discussion on topic 🙂 but I don't see the need to change and have no plans. 

@varunmehndiratta thanks so much for the informative post! Prado and Patrol are out for me, and I'm glad to hear you have a good onroad experience. I do prefer to drive near the 140km/h mark 😂 and I'm not sure I can bring it down but I could try. I'd like to investigate a bit more the comfort level differences between the Sahara and Rubicon, so thank's for bringing that up. You've really covered all the bases, even the one of taking it apart - that's always an exciting prospect but I wonder how much I'll use that. I live in RAK so if I want to go driving in Al Qudra for example, it's not like I'll take the doors off and drive to Dubai so where would I put them once I get there 😂🤔. Thanks for the note on the tires as well, as that's a question I hope to find an answer to!

Just now, Hisham Masaad said:

Apologies, I am talking about the back one, not the small back seat ones.

Ah yes, I understand. I'm talking about the rear back seat windows; if those don't go down it really is a deal breaker 💔😔.

18 minutes ago, Hisham Masaad said:

So fast @Gaurav you drop fj out, let's talk.... @samamara didn't know the window is opening🤣🤣

Now I'm confused @Hisham Masaad - are you saying the back seat windows in the FJ cruiser do open? @Nikimentioned the rear windows do not open and what I've read online is the same 🤔.

11 minutes ago, Gaurav said:

Ultimate choice is yours, but if I'm in a similar situation, I will live with a squeak.

Btw, squeak can be handled to certain extent by regular steam washing @M.Seidam, adding rubber @Foxtrot Oscar, or spacer etc.

Ok, I'll officially add it to the list since the FJ Cruiser is officially off 😊 thanks!

Just now, Gaurav said:

So if FJ is out.

Let's kick more cars out to make your choice easy:

• Pajero - you already have one.
• Xterra - squeaking.
• Wrangler - expensive and some models aren't reliable (Keeping my Jeep friends happy by adding "some").

That takes them all out 😂💔. I'm worried about the "some" models not being reliable for Jeep. Sigh!

31 minutes ago, Hisham Masaad said:

Fj

Fj

Fj

Thanks @Hisham Masaad 😂🙏🏼. Unfortunately the fact that the back windows don't go down is going to be a deal-breaker for me 💔. 

19 minutes ago, Ilya said:

I see two advantages of the large wheels:
1) It's nearly a "guaranty" that you won't have pop-outs, at all. There are some very extreme cases (like my only one 🤭), but normally you won't have any. With stock tires Wrangles still better than other cars in terms of pop-outs, but I've seen many pop-outs with Carnity on Sport/Sahara 32s and even Rubicon's 33s
I won't touch the pandora box of the ability to climb higher on the dunes, but would just highlight the pop-outs

2) The look

Thanks @Ilya 🙏🏼

3 minutes ago, Ilya said:

I think its about 500 km on stock wheels and less on large ones (nor sure, but nothing tells me that Jeeps are good in efficiency)

Regarding the noice - no issues at all (at all) - on stock, BFG315/70/17 and Coopes XLT305/70/17 tires. Its much better than e.g. lux cabrios like BMW Z4 or so. I assume all bad stories comes from the older, hardly modified jeeps

Thanks for that @Ilya - the cabin noise is one of the biggest worries I have! Speaking of the wheels, do you feel the stock wheels are good enough for desert driving, or is an upgrade necessary do you think?

1 hour ago, Ilya said:

Speaking for JL/JLU, I would only leave fuel efficiency in the list of Wrangler's drawbacks.
And it has 2 big advantages: 1) it is a new car with a modern and stylish (hello toyotas and mitsu) cabin. You enjoy when driving to sand and driving to opera; 2) you can remove the top and enjoy life differently

Thanks for that @Ilya - how bad would you say the fuel efficiency is? I don't know how you'd express it 🤔 maybe like how far can you go on a tank maybe 😂?

Also, can you comment on the noise in the cabin when you're driving it on the highway for example? I've heard some real horror stories 💔🤔. 

Thanks!

3 hours ago, Niki said:

Hey @samamara as a FJC owner I would not recommend it if you plan to carry adults  comfortably in the back for long distances. 

That said it’s far more roomier than any SWB car so if you go the Jeep/Pajero SWB route - know who ever you put in the back seat will feel you don’t like them much!  

Can you not keep your LWB 3.5 Pajero as your group tourer and then buy a SWB for yourself or yourself +1?  or if you had Jeep money, you could just buy 2 Pajero’s 🤣 3.8 LWB and a 3.8 SWB. 

I know that’s not very helpful .. hopeful the unbiased FJ commentary does help a little to confirm your original thoughts (both side suicide doors open, rear windows do not open, there are no AC vents on the back as they receive cooling from the front and underseat only, AC is okay and not Nissan level cooling) 
 

 

@Niki- thanks for that info. Honestly the fact that the back windows don't open is a huge game changer. I often have other photographers with me in the car and no back windows means no shooting for them. I didn't know that 💔. No AC in the back is also a negative. 

For sure I'll keep my LWB 3.5 Pajero - it's an old dependable friend I'd not part with till the end ❤️ - so I'm looking for something for me. I'd still prefer something with a functioning and comfortable back seat, so if I got another Pajero I don't know how a 3-door would work out. I don't have Jeep money - the bank does 😂 - but I'm happy to borrow it from them for a few years. Even with a Wrangler, though, I'd probably go for a 5-door. 

It actually is very helpful ❤️ thank you!

3 hours ago, Rizwanm2 said:

as a Xterra owner i would rate it next to FJC due to its performance, reliability and bang for bucks. 

You get proper 4 doors and its much roomier than FJC. but due to rear leaf springs its bit bumpy for rear passenger. 

Btw im talking about 2nd gen Xterra as in my profile pic not the latest 2020 model. 

@samamara i know its now more confusing. 😆 😂 

good luck with your search. 

 

Thanks @Rizwanm2! That does make things more confusing as you're the second one to bring up Xterra 😂. I'll add it to the list but it seems I'll have more research to do!

4 hours ago, Gaurav said:

How about Xterra? (non-pajero, non-wrangler, and non-FJC).

It has plenty of power for your needs, plus 4 doors with good seating except the squeaking leaf spring suspension (that you will get used to in no time).

@Gaurav - thanks for that! I hadn't really thought of that, actually 🤔. I'll look into it as an option but as I hinted in a response to @FredericI'm not sure I'll ever make a decision if I add more to the possible mix. Any Xterra owners out there can weigh in with pros and cons (though I don't love the idea of a permanent squeak!). 

3 minutes ago, Frederic said:

Hi @samamara there are a few reasons why i am more a fan of the 3.8 Pajero, but the biggest one is "bang for the buck". Let me explain:

- A Jeep Wrangler TJ 4.0 is a fantastic beast in the desert. Plenty of power, but does not have much comfort and is not made for long trips. You might find a clean one for around 25kAED.

- A Jeep Wrangler JK with the first series on 3.8 engines is not bad, but this was not a refined engine and many issue were being reported. These models can be found cheaper, and unfortunately many were being abused in the desert and will come with a list of issues.

- A Jeep Wrangler JK with the 3.6 Pentastar is an amazing offroader. No doubt about that.

 

If you try to find a clean SWB 3.8 Pajero, most of them will have limited to no off-roading history. That's already a good point. The 3.8 MIVEC engine with 240hp is plenty powerful for a short wheel base 4x4 and they are super reliable and cheap to fix.  Pricewise you will find one from 25kAED onwards (2010 model). Having a SWB Pajero now, and also having a LWB Pajero as our family vehicle, i have come to know their strong and weak points, and fell in love with their simplicity yet sophisticated and capable 4x4 system. (4WD Select). 

So am i biased ? Yes definitely i am, and if i had the budget for a nice 3.6 SWB Rubicon i would definitely go for it. But after having had an FJ Cruiser in the past that still remains my top choice.

The back doors are called suicide doors and swing open differently. If you take adult passengers regularly they wont like the claustrophobic feeling due to the small windows. But then you better opt for a Prado which has the same 4.0 Engine, and much more space in the back. 

 

 

Thank you @Fredericfor that...I appreciate it! I'm glad to hear that you would go for a Rubicon if you had the budget; I'm still really hoping for a Wrangler but if it's not going to be comfortable as an on-road car as well, I would really have to think long and hard about it. I will be keeping my beloved Pajero as a family car anyway, but I'd still want to use the Wrangler full-time for myself. Someone said to me if it's only going to be for the desert that's great...but I don't want to spend so much money on a car I'll only use in the desert first of all and, as you know, I live in RAK so sometimes I drive hours to get to the desert I want to be in 😂🤷🏻‍♀️! 

That said, I'm glad to hear too that you are a big fan of the Pajero 3.8. I do love the Pajero I have, though there's a small part of me that says if I'm going to change my car I should chaaaaange it and not get another Pajero 😂. I do like the idea of an inexpensive fix and being able to save money to do a few modifications. Sigh...it's a hard decision to make, to get a new (to-me) car. 

I knew about the suicide back doors in the FJ cruiser but I thought only one of them opens...or is it both? Yes, that's kind of the issue; I don't think the people that come with me on offroading/photography trips will be super comfortable in what seems like a tiny back.

Don't throw a Prado in the mix - I can barely choose as it is with the options I've thought about 😂💔!

On 7/20/2021 at 9:05 AM, Frederic said:

My favorites:

1) Toyota FJ Cruiser

2) Mitsubishi Pajero SWB 3.8

3) Jeep Wrangler JK Rubicon

4) Nissan Xterra

5) Toyota Fortuner (older model) 4.0 TRD. 

6) Toyota LC Prado 4.0

7) Montero Sport

 

Hi @Frederic and all - I'm jumping in on this thread because I have recently started thinking about upgrading my vehicle, not because I want to do anything extreme exactly but because I'd like to go deeper into the desert to support my hobbies of camping and photography ❤️. I have a 2011 3.5 5-door Pajero right now, which I love, but I feel that I want to change it up - not just for off-roading though, which is why it's a bit tricky to make a decision. 

My heart was originally set on getting a Wrangler, though a few have advised me against this for several reasons, such as inflated price, not being great on-road in terms of fuel efficiency and comfort, noise in the cabin while driving on the highway (this I find one of the most unsettling...don't want to have to shout a conversation to my passengers 😂💔), weak ACs and a few other issues. There were the obvious pros to weigh against these cons, but the cons are still important considerations. 

I'm wondering if any experienced Wrangler drivers can weigh in on any of these issues? I know you all love your Wranglers but please try to be objective 😂🙏🏼!

Two of the people who advised me not to go for the Wrangler instead suggested that I go for another Pajero, but a 3.8 (both said I could still with the 5-door though they'd advise a 3-door for the weight in the sand). Their arguments were that I could get it for less, invest some of that saved money into some mods and upgrades, that it would then be pretty much unstoppable in the desert and that it would still be a great on-road vehicle. In fact, the only con they both had (in separate conversations so they weren't tag-teaming me 😂) was the limited modification options compared to a Wrangler. @Fredericthe reason I quoted your list here is because I see you've also put the Pajero 3.8 ahead of a Wrangler and I'd like to ask you why. 

And while I'm here, I don't necessarily love the look of the FJ Cruiser but have been advised that it's amazing both off-road and on-road. Just a question or two: how many doors does it have...just two, or like two and a half or what? Do the back windows roll down? Is it roomy and comfortable for passengers, front and back? Those are silly questions, maybe, but all the off-road type questions seem answered by "Yes, it's amazing" 😂. 

Thanks all!

10 minutes ago, Frederic said:

The Carnity Offroad drive is scheduled in Maliha-Fossil Rock from 8PM till 11PM after we will quickly inflate and head out to Shawka dam.

Has anyone been out there recently at night? When I go there I'm generally in the wadi (between there and Wadi Tuwa) and not at the dam itself. I understand they've made quite a park there. I just want to be sure it isn't brightly lit at the dam at night now 🤔 . If it is, Buraq dam may be a better option (it's just a few more minutes away). I could do a little reconnaissance mission one of these nights if no one has been out there to know. 

52 minutes ago, Niki said:

like you @Gaurav I was coming to enjoy the show vs shoot, but now @samamara has kindly offered to help with some MIlkyway shots - i may arrive a little earlier and try that out ... hopefully finish by the time the convoy arrives for the shower and then sit back (not able to recline as not yet at the 'posh' level of glamping to have a reclining camping chair) and enjoy the show. 

If you want to shoot the milkyway we can do a slightly earlier arrival and play around a bit. 

I'm not 100% clear on the timing for the drives but the Perseids should go throughout the night. The prime viewing time for the Milky Way should be between 10:00 and 1:00. I'm super excited 😍 !

Thanks @Gaurav - I made it ❤️! Super excited!

You know what's cool? On the night of the 12th we're only four days off a new moon which, I believe, is going to set fairly early which means the skies will be quite dark; could be a great opportunity to shoot a bit of the Milky Way depending on the time we'll be there. I'm more than happy to help if anyone is interested 😊.