Gaurav

3 minutes ago, Imteeaz said:

@Gaurav hi gaurav, can i join this drive tomorrow?

Sure most welcome, will be good to see you after a long time.

Many thanks @Frederic and @Vanessa8580 to put all this detailed trip report of your amazingly planned holiday to the last minute with tracks, coordinates and pictures. Real treasure buddy.

This will def help and inspire many others for repeating this in your footstep. I hope I will be among one of them as soon as possible.

Please find your convoy numbering below

We will use Radio Channel 4

@Alphin Aloor @Arun Menon @Emanuel @Glenn W @Davie Chase @Imteeaz

1. Gaurav             Silver Pajero
2. Alphin Aloor    Nissan Patrol
3. Arun Menon    Black Xterra
4. Imteeaz           Golden Patrol
5. Emanuel          Silver Pajero
6. Glenn W          Montero Sport
7. Davie Chase    Red Rubicon

Very valid point raised by Pavel, I myself have seen a few times that person jump in offroading with the fully-loaded vehicle and that charm for offroading fades after a few drives. So it's always better to test the water and then if you have 100% interest in offroading, switch to whatever your heart desire.

Possible and probably reasons, why few ppl don't like off-roading, are:

• Adventurous but risky at times (totally scalable)
• Fun but get the car dirty with sand (unavoidable)
• Amazing to start but get physically taxing at times (if you are not in good health)
• Great to tinker (modify) but get backfire with wrong choices or damages

I love what Mark said, 

7 hours ago, Mark B said:

any car is dangerous in the desert you just have to respect that and you will be fine. 

And to understand that the fine line between fun vs stupidity comes with a lot of experience, hassle, cost and failures.

As per my experience of training new ppl, I feel more under-power the car better you will learn the intricacies of offroading and then when you switch to a powerful beast (like 392) you will be more capable and sensible yet safer. The simple reason is if you start with 392, about 80-90% of the job will be done by power and not skill. In reality, your skills will make you shine and also avert danger before it happens.

In off-roading most of the stuff that we do is pure physics (science) based to know our and our vehicle's limits to take the climb and when to turn down to respect gravity. With an under-power car, one tends to know these rules faster and agree to abide by them without any second doubts.

@Haneef Thayyil if you continue driving in manual, your Auto gearbox will never learn and adapt to desert driving shifting. Give a few drives a chance and when it's failing on you, press full throttle. That's a way you make Auto Gearbox learn and adapt to new shifting habits.

Autobox driving in Manual - if you constantly over-run each gear - soon you will damage the gearbox. That's why we only drive on manual 1st and/or 2nd gear for a couple of seconds to max minute or two while doing extensive sideys or long hill climbs.

1 hour ago, Haneef Thayyil said:

I have seen some experts videos with few examples they showed and they never suggest driving on automatic mode when drive on desert.

Sorry to say, but you can't learn off-roading from YouTube.

Your wisdom (knowledge + experience) is prime.

16 hours ago, Frederic said:

As we were not keen on taking the same road as to where we came from, we decided to take the coastal route which is longer but far more scenic. 

This is exactly, what I am going to do (learning from you buddy) to enjoy different scenic landscapes both ways.

15 hours ago, Frederic said:

Tiptronic can be useful if you have a sluggish auto gearbox. I remember on Vanessa her Pajero that gearbox was always up and down shifting at the most inappropriate times and I see same behavior on my Y61 patrol. As I came from driving manual i still prefer it. Except for Newbie level or Overlanding drives of course that’s where “D” does it for me  

Extremely valid point, that every auto box behaves differently and one needs to experiment and learn with time.

3 hours ago, Sunil Mathew said:

Just to add some car specific feedback,  as a  Fortuner owner myself (2014 ,V6) , I drive in "manual" gear, mainly because I like to be in control of my gearshifts. Vehicle controlled upshifts are not advisable when climbing long and steep dunes. In the older version of the car like mine, the "manual" gear selects the max top gear allowed. Eg. If you are in M4, it is same as D and the car up/down shifts with the max gear being M4. If you are in M3, the car up/down shifts automatically with max gear allowed being M3, ie. it wont upshift to M4 even if you hit the rpm limiter (resulting in the rat-a-tat-atata exhaust sound, if you have noticed) .

Very nice vehicle-specific suggestion and it's smart too to limit the upper range, so it basically becomes a controlled Auto than fully Auto mode.

In my car, I have an OD (Over Drive) button on the gear shifter, which does the same and also delays the shifts to 4-4.5K RPM rather than 3K and above.

2 hours ago, Stumpy Paj said:

A auto is a fluid pump, it works by converting hydraulic pressure into torque. It does this by pumping fluid through a torque converter. At low speed this converter is allowed to slip to allow the engine to build rpm. This slip is what generates the heat in the fluid. At higher speeds and in manual mode there is less slip and in some cases the converter will lock up. By driving in manual mode you control the slip and stop some of the heat being generated. Therefore you can stop your transmission overheating or getting damaged.

Fair point, but you also run the risk of over-running in any gear and producing more gearbox and engine heat at 5K, whereas the auto would have dropped RPM to 3K.

1 hour ago, topgear said:

I only started driving in manual at the later stage of F+. During newbie and fewbie I drove with auto so that I could focus more on the terrain and driving. 

Very good point added, that feel your car, gear and terrain on Newbie and Fewbie first. Later from Fewbie Plus onward start experimenting with gearbox behavior.

Hi Vishnu, you should always drive any automatic car in Auto gear in the desert.

Auto is 90-95% able to do whatever you want them to do and the more you drive on Auto, the Auto will learn the downshift pattern and be able to serve 95-98% of the time.

Only 1-5% of the time we use manual 1st gear for long hill climb if the gearbox upshift from 1st to 2nd.

Main advantages:

• You will never over-run any gear by mistake.
• Auto will efficiently serve you with the best gear as per the rpm.
• You will have one less thing to worry and stay focused on desert driving skills.

In short, your Auto gearbox is safer, more efficient and long-lasting in  Auto mode. 

We have had a few Bronco's here in the past and let's see what those owners have to say

@Marco B. @Vivek Khetan @Mark Stark and @Mehek Merchant

I have done Masterclass with two of these guys and Bronco seems as ready as FJ and Wrangler based on the first drive.

7 minutes ago, Nilakantan Erode said:

And...while on the subject of choosing a car (dont shoot me folks!)..any thoughts on Bronco Wildtrak? The test drives were fun. Price not so much.! some preowned 2021 / 2022 with low mileage are available! 

Nil, create a new topic relevant to each car for better visibility and responses from respective owners.

Double-check the weight of 4Runner, if it's lighter than your Prado and offers more power-to-weight ratio, then only it makes sense from a performance perspective.

I would any day stick to the GCC model more than an import because parts and mods are locally available quickly. So the difficult repair or major services can be handled easily.

I once had EU spec Lexus GS430 and remember how badly Al Futtaim used to treat that car like an orphan.

We request every member that joins this drive to go through the below information and strictly follow these guidelines, etiquettes and responsibilities.

MUST READ AND COMPLY

• Environmental Policy
• Offroad Flag Guideline
• Two Way Radio Guideline
• Off road Driving Etiquette's
• Emergency details for all off-roaders
• Off Road Driving - Roles & Responsibilities
   

DRIVE DETAILS

Level:  Fewbie and above

When:  29 July 2023, Saturday

Meeting time:   05:30 - Sharp (Without any exceptions)

Meeting Point: https://goo.gl/maps/UDzJ7FKT2Aq5HcyFA

Approximate finish time:  09:30

Type of Car: Any proper 4x4 with front and back tow hooks and 8-10 inches of ground clearance.

What to bring along: Loads of water, snacks (for yourself), smiles, enthusiasm and willingness to learn.

Mandatory off-road gears: Tire deflator, tire pressure gauge, compressor, walkie-talkie radio, off-road flag, shovel, first-aid kit, Tow Rope, 2 Shackles and fire extinguisher.

LIMITED SPOTS AVAILABLE

• This drive is limited to 10 cars only. RSVP will close on Friday - 12 PM.
• Please withdraw your RSVP, if you find you are unable to join, so your spot can be taken by others in the waitlist.
• If the RSVP is full, you can add your name to the waitlist, if an RSVP attendee removes themselves, you will be moved from the waitlist to the RSVP list as an attendee.
• A convoy list will be sent out the day prior to the drive.
• Latecomers will be returned back - Without any exceptions.
• Members without RSVP will be returned back - Without any exceptions.
• Repeated no-show members after RSVP will have their account suspended for a month.
   

PLEASE RSVP ON BELOW CALENDAR 

Congratulations @Arun Menon for reaching the Fewbie Level with Carnity Offroad Club. 

Looking forward to seeing you growing further and helping others to learn the art of offroading in a safe environment.

Please make sure your Carnity user profile is always updated with all the latest Emergency contact details.

P.S. Trip lead might deny your participation if you don't have required off-road gear.

FEWBIE

Congratulations @Hugo for reaching the Fewbie Plus Level with Carnity Offroad Club.

Looking forward to seeing you growing further and helping others to learn the art of offroading in a safe environment.

Please make sure your Carnity user profile is always updated with all the latest Emergency contact details.

P.S. Trip lead might deny your participation if you don't have required off-road gear.

FEWBIE PLUS

Amazing and detailed trip report for letting poor ppl like us enjoy with words and pictures.

Very well planned Fredy, ofc your level of planning is always meticulous, but I like the idea of the whole round trip to cover a long drive from both sides is very intelligent. I did it in a messed-up way due to unexpected changes.

@Frederic and @Vanessa8580  enjoy your well-deserved break and drive safe.

@Varun Mehndiratta also shifted to Rubicon recently.

7 minutes ago, Pavel Pashkovskiy said:

Main weak point of Rubicon in transfer case ratio. This car was designed for rock crawling, mountains and mud, but not for desert speedy drive and dunes climbing. Simply speaking Sport and Sahara much faster in the desert than Rubicon. Don't want to overload you here with technical details, from now on you can Googled and read more about it.

Wow, I never knew about this transfer case ratio is an issue for Rubicon. Thanks for sharing this.

Do you mean the top speed in HI gear is restricted or are you comparing LO gear top speed of Rubicon vs sandrunner?

9 minutes ago, controlz said:

Also, I can pick up a brand new 2023 Rubicon for about 200k, which I thought may be better value for money than AED130k-150k and 50k miles on a 2018 model...  What are your thoughts?

If affordability isn't a question then newer will offer 5 years of peace of mind with warranty, for sure. Model wise 2017 upward all are JLU and have the same power and features more or less.

Don't worry about wrecking your car in the sand, as far as you are driving sensibly and with good comprehensive off-road insurance, which covers almost all unforeseen situations, very well in UAE.

13 minutes ago, controlz said:

2dr because I have no children.

Awesome choice.

5 hours ago, controlz said:

Thanks for this tips. I think I’m going to go for a wrangler rubicon with the intention of it being my off-road only car, however, if I end up enjoying it for on road then I won’t rush into the daily, however will get a daily too if necessarily. I can pickup a 2018 2dr for around 120-150k. I think the 2dr is preferred for desert over 4 dr?

You definitely can't go wrong with Rubicon, it's one of the best off-road toys.

I agree with Mark that sway-bar disconnect is more for rock crawling features, not apt for sand.

Diff locks are truly essential if you have it for sand, if you don't, yes they aren't a deal breaker. So if you buying a dedicated off-road car, look for one that comes with a factory rear diff-lock (at least) + the front locker is a luxury (in Rubicon).

Now 2 door vs 4 door comes to your need, but for sand 2 door is always better for having the best power-to-weight ratio, which can offer years of smiles on every tall dune climbing.

Totally agree with Pavel, if you can split the budget into two cars, nothing like it to have the best of both worlds.

I would split 200k for a road car and 100k for an offroad car that is a couple of years old (max 5) and not previously driven off-road, with full-service history but no warranty and under 50k-100k kms road driven. These strict parameters are there for a reason.

When a car runs out of warranty, it loses big money and comes a lot cheaper. So buying a 3-5 year-old Wrangler, FJC, etc will give you a sweet spot to get the max off-road worthy car in the least amount of money (minus initial year heavy depreciation). At the same time, it's not so old that it will fall apart on every off-road drive and you keep fixing it month after month (that's why dealer service history is crucial here).

Congratulations @BIBIN THOMAS for reaching the Fewbie Level with Carnity Offroad Club. 

Looking forward to seeing you growing further and helping others to learn the art of offroading in a safe environment.

Please make sure your Carnity user profile is always updated with all the latest Emergency contact details.

P.S. Trip lead might deny your participation if you don't have required off-road gear.

FEWBIE

I'm sure in the process, Mia learned a lot and made huge memories to brag about with her friends now.

I rem, I let Iraj pour half a liter of engine oil once and heard those stories from across the globe.

Great topic @Looper, let's start some coaching again with the lens lover club, I miss those big time.

Im still in love with my single lens AF-S NIKKOR 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR on my Nikon D750 that always served me well from close up to wide angle.

4 hours ago, PETELCZYC PAJERO - luke said:

@Looper @DP1011

Prime day arrived. I got a big 4T floor Jack and a couple of 3T stands with flat bases as a backup for when pushing those tyres back on.

Thanks for the tips. 👍👍

4T is really overkill for desert use as it's huge and super heavy. Good for home repairs or workshops.

1.5 - 2.0 Ton jack is plenty because at any time you are lifting one tire and not the whole car (2.5 Ton car divided by 4 = 700 - 1000 kgs roughly on one tire).

Buying a reliable and good quality one is the most important in my eyes. Jack stand are awesome for lengthy repairs and double protection in tricky places.

To me, it seems he is a professional desert safari driver with impeccable response to steering down in less than half a second.

Roll must have happened, due to split-second distraction, wrong line, high speed, or soft sand (unfortunate case).

@M.Seidam what's written in Arabic?