Off Road Suspension

[Niki]

abundance of choice is the true first world problem. 

Preface: I am not planning upgrades NOW, i do however want to understand/educate and research independently so when i do spend on mods, its done with more confidence and without the influence of the garages keen to 'sell'. 

advice needed:

How do you approach choosing a suspension upgrade for your car? 

• at what point does spending more give limited returns (example would the additional spend to have a setup with remote reservoirs bring proportionate benefits)
• is a budget upgrade a false economy
• are there suspension brands that work better with certain car brands and if so, are there combination of suspension/car brand to avoid 
• suspension considerations to be avoided (example a lift via a spacer isn't desirable?)
• is the adjustability of a set of shocks valuable
  • i like the idea of being able to easily adjust for the regular tarmac drives and adjust for our weekend drives?  however is it as easy and required?  do you actually end up just keeping them at offroad setting and accept a bumpier ride after a while? 

I have a Toyota FJ Cruiser and have been advised and reading about the following setups - any of our forum members have any real world experiences with below? (i haven't listed the full specs, just the diameters but can share more if it helps.

• Kings Stage 3  2.5" remote Reservoir .....etc
• Radflo Stage 4 2.5" remote Reservoir .....etc
• OME BP51 .....etc
• Dobinsons 2.5" remote Reservoir .....etc
• Bilstein B8 6112
• Bilstein B8 8112 remote Reservoir .....etc

thanks in advance and i want to keep this thread relevant to any brand of car, so please feel free to share experiences with your own vehicle and setup even if not listed above. 

 

[Gaurav]

Preface: Having a proper off-road suspension DOES help a lot for off-roading in negotiating cross tracks, long hill climb at a faster speed to take bumps, making a jumps - literally air-borne with all 4 wheels in the air, so that when you land on all 4 or 2 or 1 wheel first they are strong enough to hold the car weight (unlike most of stock suspensions, which are not designed for jumping).

My view: All of the above benefits a Baja driver lot more to win the races than a weekend driver.

Secondly any off-road suspension type, brand, budget you choose will SURELY kill the road comfort, even with adjustable setup. So if your FJC is your daily driver, do not go for off-road suspension in my opinion. I had a rally bred 18 ways adjustable suspension in my Patrol and even on the softest setting I used to have a sore back on tarmac.

While raising this argument, many companies and salespeople will say now technology has changed and things have improved (might be true), so ask them to let you drive a demo car with the same suspension for an hour on highway to decide.

How do you approach choosing a suspension upgrade for your car? 

- The day you make your FJC a weekend car, you qualify for off-road suspension.

• at what point does spending more give limited returns (example would the additional spend to have a setup with remote reservoirs bring proportionate benefits)
  • After the mid range setup of 5-6K (approx) anything above is mostly offering a marginal benefit, more on paper and talks than in action.
  • Stay away from entry level setup of 2K spend as they aren't very much advisable for real off-road fun that you wish to achieve and more focused for people who "just want a lift".
  • Ultra higher end bracket of 20-25k Setup comes with real good benefits with long travel suspension and have super jumps capabilities.
     
• is a budget upgrade a false economy
  • Not really, but they are just good for entry level job.
  • Offer 2 inch lift. Period
  • Making suspension harder without much compression or rebound damping etc.
     
• are there suspension brands that work better with certain car brands and if so, are there combination of suspension/car brand to avoid 
  • It's usually the other way around, select the brand of suspension first and then ask them FJC specific product.
  • Then cross compare those FJC specific products of brand A vs B vs C.
  • Reason is some company makes awesome product for one car and then replicate generic version without much research of car weight and weight distribution (front and back).
  • Read lot of genuine google or youtube reviews than what company website reviews.
     
• suspension considerations to be avoided (example a lift via a spacer isn't desirable?)
  • Lifting car with 2 inch spacer is not a bad idea as oppose by many suspension companies because if you lift car in 500 dhs, you wouldnt be buying 5K product.
  • I have used my present Pajero for 2 years with rear 2 inch spacer.
  • Now im with diesel Pajero springs which is for heavy load (not heavy duty) so I don't compromise my road comfort and still get 2 inch rear lift.
  • Though my Pajero is a weekend car but still I value road comfort over jumps and 1 less dune as road comfort gain is substantial in my view. Ultimate choice is yours.
  • Im still running on stock suspension as in my model I have adjustable setup with a flick of button inside the car, which I dont want to loose (If I change) and its borderline not bad for off-road at Hard setting.
     
• is the adjustability of a set of shocks valuable
  • i like the idea of being able to easily adjust for the regular tarmac drives and adjust for our weekend drives?  however is it as easy and required?  do you actually end up just keeping them at offroad setting and accept a bumpier ride after a while? 
    • 99% it was a myth, now you can check by yourself if they have changed.....!
    • In my Patrol case after months of driving I gave up and accepted the sore back as my fate.

My final view: Drive your FJC in stock state as they are made of weekend offroading and they come with Bilstein 5100 shocks which are made for off-road use. When you reach to the point that stock suspension is the bottleneck and preventing you to do something extreme, then start researching on suspension upgrade specifically "SOLVING" that bottleneck. As this topic is filled with endless good and bad decision you will make based on lot of fluff floating in the market.

https://www.bilstein.com/us/en/product/bilstein-b8-5100/

 

[Niki]

@Gaurav this is incredibly useful and needs to be pinned in the ‘advices’ section.  Understandably it’s impossible to get such unbiased and experienced based guidance like this!! 
 

I have only skimmed the content and will likely have follow up questions ... which i hope others joining the thread also contribute to!  .. knowing a spacer isn’t ‘bad’ I will come back to  ask about leveling the FJ as it has the factory lean (lower at the front & slight drop to drivers side) 

massive thanks for taking the time to write this!! A lot for me to consider 

[Ahab Shamaa]

14 minutes ago, Niki Patel said:

@Gaurav this is incredibly useful and needs to be pinned in the ‘advices’ section.  Understandably it’s impossible to get such unbiased and experienced based guidance like this!! 
 

I have only skimmed the content and will likely have follow up questions ... which i hope others joining the thread also contribute to!  .. knowing a spacer isn’t ‘bad’ I will come back to  ask about leveling the FJ as it has the factory lean (lower at the front & slight drop to drivers side) 

massive thanks for taking the time to write this!! A lot for me to consider 

@Niki Patel, now, I’m starting to worry that @Gaurav has super listening powers 😂 Gaurav, Niki and I have been back and forth about this specific subject for a while now! Very useful information; thank you!

Having said that, I’m still gonna go ahead and upgrade my entry level Fox suspension, even at the expense of a stiff back😀 Maybe that’ll give me an excuse to buy a daily driver 🤣

[Luca Palanca Falsini]

Thank you @Gaurav for your super post!! I was thinking about upgrading my fortuner so now I have a quite different plint of view! 

 

 

[Niki]

36 minutes ago, Ahab Shamaa said:

Having said that, I’m still gonna go ahead and upgrade my entry level Fox suspension, even at the expense of a stiff back😀 Maybe that’ll give me an excuse to buy a daily driver 🤣

@Ahab Shamaa you are the most dangerous kind of friend!! This started off as a thread to take a considered choice when spending AED for suspension and now you have my mind drifting to convert the FJ into a weekend car and buy another daily drive!!!!! Your profile needs to come with a warning!  

I will keep reminding myself I cannot buy another car ... and get my mind back to the feedback and advice from Gaurav 

[Gaurav]

WOW I see many of you were thinking or planning suspension upgrade and I'm happy to clear just a tip of an iceberg with above pointers as there is a big ocean lies in front of you boys to choose the correct and "useful" product.

Also adding more points that I forgot to mention before:

• Stiffer suspension is really needed when you massively upgrade your tire size from 28 - 35 Inch.
  • Small upgrade of 2 Inch is acceptable as many stock suspensions has 8-10 inches of travel anyways.
• Secondly if you plan to do rock crawling or serious mountain climbing then they are very useful too.

But don't end up being a showpiece with monster truck running 35 Inch BFG with stage 3 suspension for road.

Even worst you bring that showpiece to sand like going for swimming with ice hockey gears.

Last but least, please don't be a guinea pig and ask for demo - certainly.

[M.Seidam]

Off road suspension is a never ending topic  of discussion among off-roaders and indeed making a separate thread for it is really highly appreciated . Thank you @Niki Patel for starting this thread in such elegant orderly fashion that surely of relevant concern I would say to every one. 
@Gaurav your sincere unbiased response in the relevant issues which was highlighted for me is a “gold mine “ 😉🙏🏻of reference.and now even making my decision to wait and see what the tide may bring is even more firm.

I drive a stock Nissan Xterra ( only mods are considered non major such as bash plate and kill switch ) and to tell the truth I want or at least I wish to keep it this way as It’s my daily rider as well as my weekend off road leisure  companion and no plans for a third car ( at least now ) and for me this vehicle is giving me the best of both worlds so far. I believe that skills refinement can partially compensate to certain extent ( example and it’s me : in my Stock suspension can’t for example take off immediately from a short distance to climb feya while another vehicle with comparable engine power and tires but with 5k suspension may do it , however I will need to adopt slightly slower approach building pace slowly ( momentum increasing slowly ) with distance needed ) then when the right place and time comes boost the beast out of it but still I have the halter straps in my hands with control ..) 

In conclusion it’s all what you do and what you need to accomplish in specific time and place!

cheers 
 

 
 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Mohamed Seidam

[Gaurav]

32 minutes ago, Mohamed Seidam said:

in my Stock suspension can’t for example take off immediately from a short distance to climb feya while another vehicle with comparable engine power and tires but with 5k suspension may do it

No they can't either.

Suspension has zero role in above scenario.

Stiffer suspension can and will allow climbing faya at 60-80 speed instead of 40-50 and plus when car bounce on those 3 nasty speed bumps, stiffer suspension vehicle will not loose momentum nor the line.

[M.Seidam]

1 hour ago, Gaurav said:

No they can't either.

Suspension has zero role in above scenario.

Stiffer suspension can and will allow climbing faya at 60-80 speed instead of 40-50 and plus when car bounce on those 3 nasty speed bumps, stiffer suspension vehicle will not loose momentum nor the line.

I agree sir and that’s why due to less stiffness I have to start slower in order not to loose the momentum and line . Maybe I presumed they are more stiffer than my stock . Truthly it took time to find the proper approach in stock Xterra to bring it to top eventually and not always from first time !

Edited January 7, 2021 by Mohamed Seidam