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This is probably a topic that has been bashed around hundreds of times 😂 I would tend to disagree that it should be in auto, on the sand I nearly always use manual mode, only on long flat runs I will put it back into auto. the main reasons are control, engine braking and to save wear/heat in The transmission. 1. A automatic transmission can not predict what you are about to do so it will select a gear based on what the current needs are. This is great if you are on the road and the main concern is engine efficiency, not so good if you’re half way up a dune get a bit of wheel spin and decides to up shift. 2. When descending and the load comes off the transmission again it can upshift right when you need the engine braking to control your descent. A safety issue as the car starts to run away, you instinctively hit the brake and over you go. 3. A auto is a fluid pump, it works by converting hydraulic pressure into torque. It does this by pumping fluid through a torque converter. At low speed this converter is allowed to slip to allow the engine to build rpm. This slip is what generates the heat in the fluid. At higher speeds and in manual mode there is less slip and in some cases the converter will lock up. By driving in manual mode you control the slip and stop some of the heat being generated. Therefore you can stop your transmission overheating or getting damaged. I have seen many Pajeros suffer from the over temp gearbox, never had mine come anywhere near to the limit, all of them were driving in auto. just my 2c, happy to be proved wrong.

Dear Carnity members. Below is the list of names, joining and waitlisted. Appreciate, if there is a change in your plans, to update, joining or not. Joining Theo09 @Theo09 Ben Williams @Ben Williams Abhilash Kottakkal @Abhilash Kottakkal Issam Atra @Issam Atra Vishnu Ramankutty @Vishnu Ramankutty Haneef Thayyil @Haneef Thayyil Shiju Raju @Shiju Raju DTG @DTG Shiboo Kr @Shiboo Kr Faraz94 @Faraz94 Yahir Marban @Yahir Marban Srilakshman Karthikeyan @Srilakshman Karthikeyan Manage Looper @Looper Benjamin @Benjamin Waitlisted Attendees CasperPL @CasperPL

The best mode is what works for you, as long as you feel in control 👍 You will find that in manual mode you get more control over the car, as you do more drives I would use it as much as you can so that you get a good feel for what’s happening, it will be come second nature soon enough and when you go back to auto it will feel like you are disconnected from the car 😂 the problem with all of our petrol engines is they are junk at low rpm’s, to unleash your petrols inner beast you need to let it rev 😂 or get a diesel

Just to add some car specific feedback, as a Fortuner owner myself (2014 ,V6) , I drive in "manual" gear, mainly because I like to be in control of my gearshifts. Vehicle controlled upshifts are not advisable when climbing long and steep dunes. In the older version of the car like mine, the "manual" gear selects the max top gear allowed. Eg. If you are in M4, it is same as D and the car up/down shifts with the max gear being M4. If you are in M3, the car up/down shifts automatically with max gear allowed being M3, ie. it wont upshift to M4 even if you hit the rpm limiter (resulting in the rat-a-tat-atata exhaust sound, if you have noticed) . So , in effect you are actually selecting your allowable top gear, while still allowing "auto" gear shifts within the range . Probably the same in all cars. Specifically speaking, i choose HL on transfer case, and toggle between M2 and mainly M1 for higher level drives with lot of climbs. For lower level drives with flat areas and low dunes, M3 will do fine, but M4 is not so comfy for me. I have tried LL occasionally, toggling between M4 and M3 just to get a feel of it , and felt more grounded overall.

Better late than never with my drive report. It was a truly enjoyable drive for me, as always with Dr @M.Seidam leading, @Davie Chase bringing up the rear and @Simon D keeping things stable in the center. I had great fun driving in the middle of 2 other FJs, following @Hugo ‘s tracks and in front of @Jaro Tuzinsky Of course it was great fun to see familiar @Harshal @Benjamin and new faces in the convoy Looking forward to the weekend for another night drive 😄

Tiptronic can be useful if you have a sluggish auto gearbox. I remember on Vanessa her Pajero that gearbox was always up and down shifting at the most inappropriate times and I see same behavior on my Y61 patrol. As I came from driving manual i still prefer it. Except for Newbie level or Overlanding drives of course that’s where “D” does it for me

Trip Update: Date: 26 July 2023 Country: Oman Region: Dhofar - Salalah to Duqm As we were not keen on taking the same road as to where we came from, we decided to take the coastal route which is longer but far more scenic. We left around 11am in Salalah today and arrived around 7pm in Duqm. A coastal city where a lot of economic development is currently ongoing, mostly related to oil and gas. The road from Salalah to Duqm is absolutely amazing as it alternates between mountains and driving next to the beach itself. There’s so many pristine beaches and hardly any development as of now. Due to the Khareef it was very windy and the weather was extremely pleasant. Some highlights: Sadah Beach: https://maps.app.goo.gl/vbH26P7ZNPuwTXWB8?g_st=ic Wadi Al Nakheel: https://maps.app.goo.gl/g5ejCFrPvn2225TR8?g_st=ic Manji Beach: https://maps.app.goo.gl/31Cush9EynNLJVbf6?g_st=ic Out of the mountains and into the sea: https://maps.app.goo.gl/bJBTsViDpbbeuTWG7?g_st=ic Photo from Google: Along the way:

Extremely valid point, that every auto box behaves differently and one needs to experiment and learn with time. Very nice vehicle-specific suggestion and it's smart too to limit the upper range, so it basically becomes a controlled Auto than fully Auto mode. In my car, I have an OD (Over Drive) button on the gear shifter, which does the same and also delays the shifts to 4-4.5K RPM rather than 3K and above. Fair point, but you also run the risk of over-running in any gear and producing more gearbox and engine heat at 5K, whereas the auto would have dropped RPM to 3K. Very good point added, that feel your car, gear and terrain on Newbie and Fewbie first. Later from Fewbie Plus onward start experimenting with gearbox behavior.

I agree with all of the above automatic enabled transmission cars are designed to be in auto mode for most situations as the car learn the style of the driver and adjust by time . However the manual mode option can be useful in some short lived specific situations when a sustained Torque / power needed to get you from point A to point B such as steep climb or descent especially in sand , sustained speed and control over longer time riding a ridge or side slope or while recovering yourself from a stuck while in low gear . for sure it’s incomparable to the manual transmission cars where the synchronisation between the right hand on the stick , left foot on the clutch and right foot on gas is , I would say , another unique skill to acquire in sand driving which quite fun as well

Hi @Vishnu Ramankutty I totally agree with @Gaurav automatic should serve you very well with most of all off-road situations. personally I do use my manual tiptronic option on my wrangler as it allows me to have full control over the car and which gear it is in within relation of the RPMS. (Note you should have no problem doing automatic all the way to intermediate). Using tiptronic can help you control large climbs but for the most part auto will assist you. if you plan on using auto-manual I highly recommend using it on normal roads to understand more thoroughly when to shift and what your car is comfortable doing. This is only because tiptronic will put more stress on your transmission and engine using low gears to climb dunes (note: I don’t recommend “slamming” the rpm’s ensure you always steer down when you’ve lost momentum to ensure safety of you and your car.) In the wrangler I find starting in 2nd to gain maximum torque then shifting down to 1st tends to impact the best. However every car is different I hope this helps from someone who uses auto and tiptronic

Hi Vishnu, you should always drive any automatic car in Auto gear in the desert. Auto is 90-95% able to do whatever you want them to do and the more you drive on Auto, the Auto will learn the downshift pattern and be able to serve 95-98% of the time. Only 1-5% of the time we use manual 1st gear for long hill climb if the gearbox upshift from 1st to 2nd. Main advantages: You will never over-run any gear by mistake. Auto will efficiently serve you with the best gear as per the rpm. You will have one less thing to worry and stay focused on desert driving skills. In short, your Auto gearbox is safer, more efficient and long-lasting in Auto mode.

With my Toyota Fortuner 2023 automatic, I'm wondering if I need to switch the gear to manual while going off-road in deserts. I've seen some videos suggesting that switching to manual mode when driving in sand can lead to better performance and help on avoiding transmission issues ( Heating Transmission ). Being a Newbie driver, do in need to focus on this or it's just for experts who rule the sand dune terrain Help be on this....

Thanks @Varun Mehndiratta , I was gonna do an intermediate but I got new rubber to test. Impressions so far, not every road feels like I’m driving on gravel.

I only started driving in manual at the later stage of F+. During newbie and fewbie I drove with auto so that I could focus more on the terrain and driving. When I drive in auto, at more challenging terrain or softer sand I could feel that the auto box is hunting for gears which can be frustrating at times.

Thank you all @Gaurav @Pavel Pashkovskiy @Benjamin @Frederic @M.Seidam @Sunil Mathew @Stumpy Pajfor the valuable feedback based on your experience. For now, I'll stick with what I'm doing, which is driving in automatic mode. As I gain more control over the vehicle, I will gradually start trying out these manual shift. I hope by the time I might be an expert on off roads. Once again, thank you all for these valuable pieces of advice.

As we drove to Isengard via the gap between the "forest" and the "mountains", we will drive out of Isengard keeping further east, through the "forest" of Ghaf trees. 😉 Sauron will keep a watchful eye on us from the top of its Solar Tower.

Some Photos Continued: Wadi Darbat Bottom: Becoming more challenging here: Wadi Darbat Hike and Wadi Trail: https://goo.gl/maps/MnAjvjHvznTCvrM79 Thumrait to Rakhyut Canyon Road: Unforgettable.... Fazayah Beach: https://goo.gl/maps/8EkfwGxVaM4XxAQm6 Ain Khor Waterfalls:

For many, Oman is tucked away somewhere in a corner of the Middle East, and even though you might have heard abouts its beauty, its hospitality, and its variety, it is quite large and takes a bit of preparation to explore. We decided to take a road trip over the last couple of weeks in Oman and it was no coincidence as to why we chose July. Every year, the Khareef (monsoon) blesses the Salalah region with clouds, rains, and turn the region into a green paradise. That includes daily temperatures around 26 degrees, and a lot of fog. As we were trying to escape the Dubai summer heat, we reckoned this was a great trip worth taking as we talked about it for years but kept postponing due to COVID and other issues. The main plan looks like this: Dubai to Nizwa: 420km to cover in Day One. Enjoy Nizwa old town, and Jebel Hatt/Akhdar. Nizwa to Salalah: 876km to cover in Day Two. 7 days exploration around entire Dhofar-Salalah region. (wadis, trails, beaches, etc..) Salalah to Duqm: 676km to cover on the 10th day, following coastal road and few stops in-between. Duqm to Sur: 518km on the 11th day, mostly along the coastal road, with planned stop at the Sugar Dunes. Sur to Dubai: 654 km on the 12th day, along Muscat, stopping on the occasional sinkhole but no wadis. (we explored those in 2019) Important Notes: 1. As we were traveling with one vehicle only, we were careful with off-roading and stuck to gatch tracks and existing trails as much as possible. 2. The drive from Nizwa to Salalah is long and boring (not scenic). You'll find petrol stations along the way where i recommend keeping your car always topped up. The temperature was +40 degrees, and you don't want your car to breakdown on this road so make sure it's serviced and fully inspected before embarking on this trip. 3. The main road that goes through Salalah is the Route 47, also called Sultan Qaboos Road. Although this is a stunning road and perhaps even one of the most beautiful roads in the world, the fog made the visibility in many places almost impossible to drive. Especially once the elevation exceeded 350m it became very difficult to drive, and the cows crossing the streets on the mountain villages did not help either. This also meant that some of the waypoints we wanted to visit closer towards the Yemen border took hours to reach and we even had to skip a couple of them. 4. Military checkpoints. The Dhofar region has a couple of military checkpoints. We did not face any issues but needed to carry our ID's at all time. 5. Rain, and lots of it. I was happy we got new tires installed two weeks before the trip, and the car underwent a full inspection as well. At times we could not even distinguish the color of the car anymore as it got so dirty from all the mud. Luckily carwashes were easy to find. 6. The Salalah region is predominantly Sunni, while the rest of Oman is mostly Ibadi. Throughout Oman we were advised to dress modestly and even then, we got a lot of curious stares and looks It felt like being back in Saudi in many cases (restaurants with family section, etc..). But overall, the people are very friendly and helpful. Further in this topic i will shortly describe the areas / waypoints we visited, with some photos to visualize the experience (although difficult). Stay tuned for more trip updates!

Hi All, I recently moved to the UAE and haven't yet bought a daily car. (For 2 people + dog). I was about to buy a mini suv then then..... .... I experienced my first desert drive this week as a passenger and I want to learn to drive the dunes! As such, I am now unsure whether I should buy one car that will be multi-purpose, or I should continue to buy my daily, but then buyer a cheaper off road car. My budget for a daily is around 300k and I like speed and power so I have a good amount to spend, but I am conscious that the more expensive the car, the more expensive it will be to repair if I damage it on the dunes! So, do I buy a daily car for 200-250k and then a second vehicle for the dunes, or just buy one car that does all Thanks! Controlz

Haha love it! Great minds mate, I love the scrambler look with some KCs 😍😍😍 Plus you could get your wheels done in bronze for like 600 dibs in paint or a bit more for powder coat and would look pretty much like the ones in the picture 🤗

Yeah definitely best place to start! First thing I did after a dead pedal lol great tires and love the white text! 😎 should go for an old skool look! Would be super slick with your setup Like this would be bad ass 😃😃

@Hisham Masaad confirmed

Dear Desertnauts, a few updates about tomorrow's drive. The meeting point has been published. Unfortunately, I have not found the shred of a shady spot in the area, so we'll have to arrive, deflate, and wait to leave in the comfort of our cars. Let's try to be timely, and quick in setting up. We plan to take a shortcut while driving up, away from Faqa, and around Isengard, staying as close as possible to the Eye of Sauron. Once we reach the northern border of its enclosure, we'll head west, across an endless field of technical dunes, across the "forest" of Ghaf trees that lies just to the right of our path. We plan to exit the treacherous area in time to enjoy the sunset. The short convoy will line up as follows: @Fabien Monleau in Second Lead @Stumpy Paj at #3 @Bashar Beasha at #4 @salah2u in Sweep. As usual, the radio channel will be chosen on the spot. Get ready to start the weekend in the desert. Enjoy the end of the week.

Will miss you buddy. Welcome onboard @Gary F and @Beide Worku, you have been added to the drive.

Great adventurous trip @Frederic. Well done. Hope to follow in your footstep soon. Waiting for the rain to stop and for the sun not to be too hot 😁

This is exactly, what I am going to do (learning from you buddy) to enjoy different scenic landscapes both ways.

Yes @Pavel Pashkovskiy the bronco ecosystem is not fully developed (yet) w.r.t. Repairs / spare parts / mods etc . Jeep seems well established and Japanese vehicles have their own ecosystem to take care of repairs and mods. One of my American friends told me that … repairs / spare parts are not that big a concern in US as most folks there have a D.I.Y. Mindse ( unlike here in Middle East where cheaper labour is available)!! Was also reading @Loopercomments on a related bronco thread ‘With dunebashing (vs baja racing) not a large part of the American off-road scene, and focus on national park trails, rock crawling and overlanding focus overall, it will take time for American manufacturers to embed themselves into the driving culture of the desert.’ So True!! And…Bronco Badlands has some good specs but again rock crawling is not the culture here in UAE (quoting directly from a Al tayer salesperson!!). Guess they are positioning it wrongly . Rubicon also has similar specs but is not held back by lack of ‘ Rock crawl’ culture!! for the time being .. nothing is going to be no change in the desertscape … as there is hardly any supply / delivery of broncos (ignoring limited ones in the pre owned market) and the latest from dealer is that none will be released soon as there is a recall in place for broncos because of a seat belt issue and that needs to be be fixed before new cars are delivered!!

No spare parts, no upgrade kits, no specialized garages, absolutely nothing. Jeep, Nissan or Toyota you can repare at any coffee shop. "Please one Karak and one shock absorber... and driveshaft for the balance please..." Why people even thinking about cars like Bronco for offroading? It was the name long time back, same like Defender, but now they are typical mall crawlers

😁😁 you will be driving in 4H only until you will try 4L. There is special technics how to drive in 4L including manual gear shifting and other tricks. You definitely reach that as soon you become experienced Wrangler driver. Anyway, don't want to open Pandoras box at least in this topic. I want to tell you something different to look in to it from another side. Wrangler - it's Lego in car world. This is only car you can build and re-build by yourself according needs, taste and wishes. By buying fully loaded (big question actually) Rubicon, you passing your opportunity to build your own car to the manufacturer. Owning Jeep Wrangler it's a lifestyle. And by missing opportunity to do your own modification, you are loosing big part of your lifestyle. Absolutely everything coming on stock Rubicons are lower than medium rated components in compare with what you can put on it by yourself. Even heavy duty Dana 44 axels can be easily damaged by non-experienced driver in first desert drive. Instead of that you can do axel reinforcement in some high rated garage for less than 2k aed, and will get lifetime warranty on it. Stock shocks, even Fox are very basic. For good performance you need to put at least cold air intake and exhaust from 3rd party professional manufacturers. Every Wrangler engine in Middle East must be re-tunned, even GCC specs, because it's coming with US setting, which is not enough in very hot climat here. You will get totally different car after all modifications, but will loose warranty. This is why my suggestion to not look for brand new car from dealer. Instead of hunting for stock multimedia system with car play, you can put some system from Carobotor. Good apholstery shops will make leather upgrades for you which non of stock owner can even dream, any color and combination. All your modifications will cost you minimum 2-3 time cheaper than getting it in stock car, but your car will be performing 10 times better than stock. All what you need is just avoid double payning for that. Better to get stock Sport, and modify it till the level much higher than Rubicon, and it will be still cheaper. This is what i called to be Wrangler owner and living Jeep Wrangler lifestyle. By skipping this, you are loosing all experience for what this car was done.

Hi @controlz had Sahara and as @Gaurav mentioned recently moved to Rubicon around 7/8 months back. For me both have been my daily and off-road ride. Have loved them both on road as well as off road. Just like you Leather seats was a must thing for me - mainly as with young kids I know the pain of maintaining fabric. Plus for my on road, I needed the comforts of nice cooling system , good audio system, a decent feel on cabin and bit of electronics - we are in 2023, car without CarPlay - not going to work for me 😀, for my Sahara even went with the adaptive cruise, collision warning rtc. With JL, all these are good and meet the standard I was hoping for … surely isn’t a X5 but good enough to make it for comfort drive. I have a 2yo and over last 1-1.5 year we have multiple long drives as a testament to comfort. Surely Sahara was on road more comfortable compared to Rubicon - mainly because of more aggressive Tyres on Rubicon but diff is minor. And this was after moving from a Lexus IS300 sedan to Jeep as my daily drive. Again not saying it’s as smooth but didn’t feel the gap I initially expected. With JL (I.e 2018 onward) Jeep has really changed the game wrt city drive. And it literally grows over time. Reg off road capabilities - Wrangler stock is super cool - over two year of off-roading including leading drives for almost a year now, I never felt real need to upgrade. Did gear ratio in Rubicon made a diff for me when I switched from Sahara - yes felt it for first few drives, perhaps a month. Once got adapted, I don’t think I am missing any element. And ofcourse with Dana 44 and diff locks, Rubicon surely brings in much more value. The fact that I can take doors/roof off during winter is a big plus. That feel is just another level. Having said, I have an adv, we needed two cars - for me and one for wife. So for the other one we went for a comfortable Volvo s90. So yes, for days when official things call for something more comfortable, a bit more luxurious cabin feel with some specific passengers - I do use that 😀 Or the days I have my or wife’s parents here and don’t want them to go through the discomfort of climbing up on my Rubicon, I use my wife car. Since you have decent budget, unless you regularly have these specific needs like I mentioned above, go for a new Wrangler - it will meet most needs. Used wranglers JL are super expensive these days, found it more logic friendly to buy new and buying a sport and trying to upgrade - somehow maths hasn’t been convincing for me. Hope it helps.

Trip Update: Date: 18 July 2023 Country: Oman Border crossing at Al-Ain Meyzad: https://goo.gl/maps/dfTBdaLyCXjAiZ1P6 Do not bring drones, two-way radios, alcohol, or any other illegal items! We sorted out our e-visas beforehand online (29A for sponsor and 29B for dependents), 5 OMR per person. The border official told me there’s a free visa for GCC residents somehow. Not sure if he meant online or on arrival. Crossing the border was very smooth and a matter of minutes only with a short visual check of the car. Make sure to get car insurance coverage for Oman and get the “orange card”’ from your insurer. This is just a piece of paper in Arabic that states your car is insured for Oman. Make sure the vehicle is under your name. I’ve seen an occasion where the guy was barred from entering because the car was under his wife’s name, and she was not with the group. Vehicle on car loan will need clearance from the bank I heard in the past. Not sure if this is true or still valid. Region: Nizwa - https://goo.gl/maps/EVo2Gx8e5fuGmots8 Known for: its fort and adjacent souk, a beautiful palm tree-lined city nearby the majestic Al Hajar mountains. Somehow it felt a bit cooler here than Dubai already. View from Jebel Hatt (2000m elevation): You can follow the tarmac road and climb all the way until this viewpoint: https://goo.gl/maps/NzuvpEsNyG6QX9rz6 If you fancy some decent off-roading trails, you can go from here all the way to Rustaq via Snake Canyon. https://goo.gl/maps/SXnWP6YEKvRWkrz19 We skipped this due to lack of time and the unpleasant weather (40+ degrees C). Courtyard of Al Bustan Inn, a cosy small hotel which we booked for one night: https://goo.gl/maps/PpKW2dpNavRXctSw5

Ok, seems you are not aware about main disadvantage of Rubicon, this is why i asked first, before give my opinion and advice. Main weak point of Rubicon in transfer case ratio. This car was designed for rock crawling, mountains and mud, but not for desert speedy drive and dunes climbing. Simply speaking Sport and Sahara much faster in the desert than Rubicon. Don't want to overload you here with technical details, from now on you can Googled and read more about it. At the beginning of your offroad adventure you will not feel much difference due to basic level of the drives you will be joining, but after some time you will regret about your choice, because you will not be able to "fly" over the dunes same like other Jeeps. 98% of all offroad vehicles in the region doesn't have sway bar disconnect system and difflocks. It's almost useless on sand, and designed for mountains and muds. My personal suggestion 2dr Sport. You main choice need to be between JL and JK. If you are looking for the car model somewhere 2018, i suggest to go for JK. Because 2018 was last manufacturing year for JK and it was near best of the best option, and 2018 was first year of manufacturing of JL, and like everything just released that cars had lot of issues. Why Sport? Because technically it's same car as Sahara, just without luxerious things, which you don't need at all in the desert. You will be always thinking to remove roof and doors or trying to keep leather seats safe, why you need this? Go unlimited.

@M.Seidam thank you for an amazing night drive as always thoroughly enjoyed myself. Fantastic flowing drive with great lines. @Benjamin superb second lead listening to and acting on Docs instructions keeping the rest of the convoy safe and sound, well done mate. @Simon D your CF presence as always brings a mastery to the middle of the convoy, attending to the few refusals and stucks that we encountered great job as usual mate. The rest of the convoy @Thejas Uthran @Gautam Banka @Glenn W @Harshal @Hugo @topgear @Jaro Tuzinskydrove extremely well making the support teams jobs so much easier, great to see some old and new faces out in the desert, great drive, great company and an abundance of fun, what else do you need on a Friday night :):) hope to see you all in the sand again soon

@M.Seidam this was a great drive in the dark to add toward to the infinite dark loops series! I always look forward to these and hope to see you again soon. everyone drove amazingly and it was incredible to see the large convoy manipulate the dunes like a oversized playground! Till next time everyone amazong support @Davie Chase (smooth operator) and @Simon D always great to learn something new with you guys

When FJC and Xterra launched in 2008 for the first 3-4 years till 2012 we still use to see old 4x4 in the desert - Wranglers, Cherokee (which used to be super hit in winters), LR discovery, Prado, LC and Patrols. After 2012, FJC and Xterra slowly prove their real worth and become popular. Also, earlier models of FJC has a fender bender reputation, that Toyota tried to ignore but soon they realize it was better to address and fix than play hide and seek. I also rem when Y62 launched and it also took about 3-5 years to fail completely for desert no matter how hard Nissan tried to influence buyers. The bottom line, any new 4x4 platform will need at least 3-5 years to show its true worth (good or bad).

Hi @Ale Vallecchi removing myself as my car won’t make it out of the garage in time. You guys enjoy.