Help chose! Do-it-all vs separate off roader (LR Discovery vs Volvo XC90)

[Gaurav]

Volvo indeed makes good cars and people all around the world appreciate their safety and gizmos. Matching the safety level is actually mandatory since few years now so almost all "Good Manufacturer" lives at par with those safety standards, as it has become an industry norm than a feather in a cap.

Coming to "SUPER BAD" resale value let me explain that it goes much deeper and beyond than just the monetary loss, even if you can afford to loose over 60-70% of the car value in 3 years. Because any car resale value is purely based on the market dynamics and demand because of its:

1. Performance
2. Reliability
3. Quality
4. Ease of spare parts availability - new and used
5. Long lasting in GCC harsh climate.

As we don't marry a spouse because she has a wonderful pink gown, but we marry because she is understanding, dependable, strong and reliable. Same way buying a family car worth 150K for driver assist features is a way too long shot.

I understand that you have made up your mind, but please before buying:

1. Do test drive with those driver assist features and make them justify for all the odds that you are getting into.
2. Do test drive other brands, they may not have futuristic driver assist features but they have pass the test of time.
   1. Little above league - Lexus GX, BMW X5, Audi Q7 - Go for little older model (to fit in 150k)
   2. Little below league - Patrol, Land Cruiser 
   3. My personal recommendations as per priority-
      1. 2017 Lexus GX460 (Highest Recommendation) (150-160K)
      2. 2016 Lexus GX460 (130-140K)
      3. 2014-15 Lexus LX570
      4. 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser
      5. 2017 Lincoln Navigator (if you need 7 seats with "True luxury")
      6. 2016 Cadillac Escalade (if you need 7 seats with "True luxury")
      7. 2016-17 GMC Denali (if you need 7 seats with "True luxury")

[Shadab Khan]

On 6/9/2020 at 12:32 AM, desertdude said:

1. Personally I don't know why you are so adamant about these driver assist features that they are turning into deal breaker.

2. And what are you on about LR not being off road capable? Are we talking about the same car here.

Hi @desertdude, please see response below:

1. As I mentioned in my other comments, its partly that I feel a bit nervous on busy roads given how irresponsibly a lot of people drive. The other reason is my wife would also like to drive the car we buy.

2. I was referring to the "New" Discovery (2017+) but even then I do believe its a capable off roader – just not the way LR has positioned it in GCC market (i.e. no option to buy one with 18" wheels, off road tires, and rear diff lock). None of the four trims offer an "off road package" or anything like that. This is what I meant – that they want you to think of LR as a luxury car with leather seats being the premium package (nothing wrong with that, but seriously is that why one looks at LR?), where as these new discoveries appear to be plenty of off-road capable but are hampered by how LR is trying to sell them here.

On 6/9/2020 at 12:38 AM, desertdude said:

3. Anyways seems like your mind is made up and you just came here to get confirmation of your choice. So go for it, you only live once but like everyone here, don't get upset when they say We told you so!

3. No sir! I came here for the same reason one goes to a trusted friend – you know the advice may not be what you want, but it is the one you need. Please read on below!

On 6/9/2020 at 11:44 AM, Gaurav said:

I understand that you have made up your mind, but please before buying:

1. Do test drive with those driver assist features and make them justify for all the odds that you are getting into.
2. Do test drive other brands, they may not have futuristic driver assist features but they have pass the test of time.
   1. Little above league - Lexus GX, BMW X5, Audi Q7 - Go for little older model (to fit in 150k)
   2. Little below league - Patrol, Land Cruiser
   3. My personal recommendations as per priority-
      1. 2017 Lexus GX460 (Highest Recommendation) (150-160K)
      2. 2016 Lexus GX460 (130-140K)
      3. 2014-15 Lexus LX570
      4. 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser

Hi @Gaurav, thank you so much for your suggestions. Actually I did a test drive and as you suggested tried out all the driver assist features that Volvo offers. Unfortunately the only feature that worked reliably was adaptive cruise. Other features like lane centering and steering control etc failed to function, I tried engaging them several times. It appears UAE highways are not "marked" as Volvo needs them to work reliably. Not to mention this car had poor suspension (felt over a bump and a pothole) and wheel alignment issues – I felt the steering vibrate at moderate speed (80–100 KPH). Not to mention this car HAD been through the Volvo 120-point check already! Also it was curiously missing the air suspension which was standard in the trim I saw in 2017. Given all this, and overall hesitation shared by you and other experienced members here, I have decided to look away from Volvos for good.

As of now, given my budget and the advice I have received here, I am thinking of holding on to my 7 seater traverse and seriously considering Jeep Grand Cherokee in Summit or Limited Plus trims. All Summit versions as far back as 2015 offer the driver assist features we are looking for and appear to be off road capable. Some of the recent Limited Plus trims also have the driver assist features.

In this option, I have two concerns:

1) Engine is 5.7L V8 – is it going to be more problematic than smaller engines, e.g. the newer 3.6L V6 that Grand Cherokee comes with?

2) Grand cherokee summit comes with QuadraLift air suspensions. I have read several bad things about these air suspensions.

Anyone has any experiences to share on the two points above? I am continuing to read more online and also looking more closely at the Lexus models suggested by Gaurav.

[desertdude]

7 hours ago, Shadab Khan said:

Hi @desertdude, please see response below:

1. As I mentioned in my other comments, its partly that I feel a bit nervous on busy roads given how irresponsibly a lot of people drive. The other reason is my wife would also like to drive the car we buy.

2. I was referring to the "New" Discovery (2017+) but even then I do believe its a capable off roader – just not the way LR has positioned it in GCC market (i.e. no option to buy one with 18" wheels, off road tires, and rear diff lock). None of the four trims offer an "off road package" or anything like that. This is what I meant – that they want you to think of LR as a luxury car with leather seats being the premium package (nothing wrong with that, but seriously is that why one looks at LR?), where as these new discoveries appear to be plenty of off-road capable but are hampered by how LR is trying to sell them here.

3. No sir! I came here for the same reason one goes to a trusted friend – you know the advice may not be what you want, but it is the one you need. Please read on below!

Hi @Gaurav, thank you so much for your suggestions. Actually I did a test drive and as you suggested tried out all the driver assist features that Volvo offers. Unfortunately the only feature that worked reliably was adaptive cruise. Other features like lane centering and steering control etc failed to function, I tried engaging them several times. It appears UAE highways are not "marked" as Volvo needs them to work reliably. Not to mention this car had poor suspension (felt over a bump and a pothole) and wheel alignment issues – I felt the steering vibrate at moderate speed (80–100 KPH). Not to mention this car HAD been through the Volvo 120-point check already! Also it was curiously missing the air suspension which was standard in the trim I saw in 2017. Given all this, and overall hesitation shared by you and other experienced members here, I have decided to look away from Volvos for good.

As of now, given my budget and the advice I have received here, I am thinking of holding on to my 7 seater traverse and seriously considering Jeep Grand Cherokee in Summit or Limited Plus trims. All Summit versions as far back as 2015 offer the driver assist features we are looking for and appear to be off road capable. Some of the recent Limited Plus trims also have the driver assist features.

In this option, I have two concerns:

1) Engine is 5.7L V8 – is it going to be more problematic than smaller engines, e.g. the newer 3.6L V6 that Grand Cherokee comes with?

2) Grand cherokee summit comes with QuadraLift air suspensions. I have read several bad things about these air suspensions.

Anyone has any experiences to share on the two points above? I am continuing to read more online and also looking more closely at the Lexus models suggested by Gaurav.

So basically your not confident about your driving  so you want to rely on gizmos instead. 

This way you will never learn to drive properly and spend an entire life depending on gizmos.  I know driver's who can't park in the open parking spot because they are so use to back up cameras and parking sensors

Here is some real sincere advice. Rent the shittiest car you can for a month. Maybe a Nissan Micra or a Mitsu Mirage 

And drive on the roads you think are the are the "most dangerous" and drive on then daily for a couple of hours without fail.

Come down to Sharjah once or twice a week and drive around in Rolla 

Your problem is nothing but overcoming your fear of the road. If you are never going to learn how to overcome it. You will always be that shitty driver who is holding up traffic, flashed at, honked at all the time. That one irritating guy who chokes up the entire shopping mall parking lot because he can't seem to park his car in a huge parking space and just keeps going forward and backwards until someone gets aick. Yanks out the driver and parks his car for him.

Don't be that guy.

Put all you car buying hopes aside and get over your fear of driving first.

Unless you want to be THAT guy 

 

 

[sertac]

Grand Cherokee's are my thing and 5.7 is what I have on my father's 2011 limited. I can't say much other than very good experience on that engine. Ours are currently at 130.000km on the clock and it's been with us since 60.000km. Only issue we had was some misfire issue. We change the 1 coil 2. Hand for 150aed and wolla issue solved. No any other issues with that engine. Note that this thing is quick, when you give the gas it will show what it got. Don't go with 3.6 if you can afford 5.7. 3.6 also and amazing engine but Grand Cherokee needs a V8 to have some fun. 

Air suspension is something I haven't tried. Ours is limited and came with basic suspensions. 

When I talk about general reliability. 1 year ago when car reached 110.000km it needed lower and upper arms to be changed. It wasn't quite expensive because we used dublicate Turkish made parts and no problem about that so far 6 months ago backup camera start not working and mechanics at Al Qouz couldnt figure it out, they are offering to change camera, since we don't need a back up camera it stays as it is. Biggest f*ck up was around 2 years ago battery died and after we put the new battery electric trunk stop working. Also few mechanics we went at AL Quoz couldn't figure it out and we end up going to Jeep stealership. They quoted 12.000 😲 when I check the list they put everything from trunk struts to computers to fuse box. So they weren't figure it out also they changed everything related to trunk. With negotiations we end up paying 8000 for that electric trunk. 

If you ask me would I buy that again hell yes what should I bought super reliable Prado 2.7 for that price definitely I will choose the grand cherokee all day long. After a hard day just go to the highway and slam the gas pedal orchestra named hemi will make everything go away. 

 

 

[desertdude]

1 hour ago, sertac said:

Grand Cherokee's are my thing and 5.7 is what I have on my father's 2011 limited. I can't say much other than very good experience on that engine. Ours are currently at 130.000km on the clock and it's been with us since 60.000km. Only issue we had was some misfire issue. We change the 1 coil 2. Hand for 150aed and wolla issue solved. No any other issues with that engine. Note that this thing is quick, when you give the gas it will show what it got. Don't go with 3.6 if you can afford 5.7. 3.6 also and amazing engine but Grand Cherokee needs a V8 to have some fun. 

Air suspension is something I haven't tried. Ours is limited and came with basic suspensions. 

When I talk about general reliability. 1 year ago when car reached 110.000km it needed lower and upper arms to be changed. It wasn't quite expensive because we used dublicate Turkish made parts and no problem about that so far 6 months ago backup camera start not working and mechanics at Al Qouz couldnt figure it out, they are offering to change camera, since we don't need a back up camera it stays as it is. Biggest f*ck up was around 2 years ago battery died and after we put the new battery electric trunk stop working. Also few mechanics we went at AL Quoz couldn't figure it out and we end up going to Jeep stealership. They quoted 12.000 😲 when I check the list they put everything from trunk struts to computers to fuse box. So they weren't figure it out also they changed everything related to trunk. With negotiations we end up paying 8000 for that electric trunk. 

If you ask me would I buy that again hell yes what should I bought super reliable Prado 2.7 for that price definitely I will choose the grand cherokee all day long. After a hard day just go to the highway and slam the gas pedal orchestra named hemi will make everything go away. 

 

 

If you read, the poster is not interested in any of that he just wants the most autopilot functions he can on a car in his budget. 

[Shadab Khan]

9 hours ago, desertdude said:

So basically your not confident about your driving  so you want to rely on gizmos instead. 

This way you will never learn to drive properly and spend an entire life depending on gizmos.  I know driver's who can't park in the open parking spot because they are so use to back up cameras and parking sensors

Here is some real sincere advice. Rent the shittiest car you can for a month. Maybe a Nissan Micra or a Mitsu Mirage 

And drive on the roads you think are the are the "most dangerous" and drive on then daily for a couple of hours without fail.

Come down to Sharjah once or twice a week and drive around in Rolla 

Your problem is nothing but overcoming your fear of the road. If you are never going to learn how to overcome it. You will always be that shitty driver who is holding up traffic, flashed at, honked at all the time. That one irritating guy who chokes up the entire shopping mall parking lot because he can't seem to park his car in a huge parking space and just keeps going forward and backwards until someone gets aick. Yanks out the driver and parks his car for him.

Don't be that guy.

Put all you car buying hopes aside and get over your fear of driving first.

Unless you want to be THAT guy 

Hahaha omg @desertdude looks like someone pissed you off real bad  Sorry dude! But I am not THAT guy, nor do I have a fear of driving. As I said, its a lack of trust on other drivers on the road that bother me – changing lanes without signaling, tailing you even on the lanes that are not meant for overtaking, taking a left turn without signaling from two lanes right to you, cutting you off so close you have to break to save yourself, rear ending into you even when you honked – all of these have happened to me in the UAE. It's the things that are not in my control that make me nervous. Also, please this article: Road rage is very high in UAE with a lot of angry drivers, so I do think that getting flashed/honked/tailed is not a good indicator of who is a good/confident driver and who isn't, though I do agree with you one must not hold up a parking lot with no access to a rear camera 

I am not a new driver btw, driven over 200,000 KM and Alhamdulillah no accidents as of yet  (excluding one time in 2011 when a deer jumped right in front of my car from bushes adjacent to a road in rural New England, I was within speed limit). I have done basic off-roading on trails in Alaska, British Columbia, Hawaii, etc which did not require any special skills or training. I am new to serious off–roading, and given the more raw and natural trails in UAE + desert, I figured I should educate myself on what real off roading is all about.

Also I promise I won't be THAT guy

7 hours ago, desertdude said:

If you read, the poster is not interested in any of that he just wants the most autopilot functions he can on a car in his budget. 

NO! I very much appreciate @sertac's comments. I have now scheduled a viewing of this GC, hearing of his positive experience with his 5.7L engine:

https://dubai.dubizzle.com/motors/used-cars/jeep/grand-cherokee/2020/6/10/aed1714month-2015-jeep-grand-cherokee-summ-2/

Price is a bit on the higher side, will put a deposit and test drive after AD ends the travel restrictions.

[Gaurav]

Woah what happen @desertdude again you woke up on the wrong side.....?

@Shadab Khan now I think its getting clear who you are and what you really want.

Glad you tested the Volvo driver assist features and satisfied yourself with reasonable expectation from what car manufacturer shows in commercial and what actually ends up with.

Can you please clarify my few doubts:

• Have you changed your mind for keeping your 7 seater Traverse?
• Are you looking for dedicated offroader only now?
• Do you actually have a family of 7 or prefer 7 seater for guest or extra space for shopping bags?

Let me explain bit more why I am asking these and where Im heading to:

• You cannot have 7 seater + capable offroader, it simply doesn't go in sand offroading as in sand you need better power to weight ratio which comes with lighter cars (2 doors or 5 seater max) with biggest engine capacity.
• If your need is to do a lighter trails and beach sand or desert sand - "WITHOUT" driving over dunes, then 7 seater + offroad capability can work. But in that case go with proper offroad capable vehicle and not just imposter.
• Lot of time, people mix one time need and making car buying decision overly complex. So if you have some one-time need, please share it and we can give you ideas on that too.

[Rahimdad]

I too owned a 5.7 Hemi on a Jeep Commander, but that was some time back, never had any issues the first time around, so when pocket permitted I bought one again. Buying for a second time turned out to e a mistake. But as long as serious off-roading and JGC goes, i would recommend for you to have a word with @Brette who has mastered the stallion and uses it to the best both off-road and on-road. Being old fashioned I would prefer to drive something old and cheap in the desert without all the electronic gadgets. A @Gaurav bhai once owned a Range Rover with air suspensions and after spending a few hard earned dirhams changed it to coil overs and did not feel the ride comfort change by much. Some things are only perceptions and some technology available becomes useless as you said the UAE roads are not marked as per Volvo likings. Don't fall to much into technology, specially not for off-roading.

[Shadab Khan]

40 minutes ago, Gaurav said:

Can you please clarify my few doubts:

• 1. Have you changed your mind for keeping your 7 seater Traverse?
• 2. Are you looking for dedicated offroader only now?
• 3. Do you actually have a family of 7 or prefer 7 seater for guest or extra space for shopping bags?

Let me explain bit more why I am asking these and where Im heading to:

• You cannot have 7 seater + capable offroader, it simply doesn't go in sand offroading as in sand you need better power to weight ratio which comes with lighter cars (2 doors or 5 seater max) with biggest engine capacity.
• If your need is to do a lighter trails and beach sand or desert sand - "WITHOUT" driving over dunes, then 7 seater + offroad capability can work. But in that case go with proper offroad capable vehicle and not just imposter.
• Lot of time, people mix one time need and making car buying decision overly complex. So if you have some one-time need, please share it and we can give you ideas on that too.

Hi @Gaurav, thanks a lot for your response. Please see my answers below:

1) Yes, my traverse is actually fine, and I am keeping it because I need 7 seats infrequently, on those days I can do without driver assist features. The biggest change in thinking was accepting that keeping two cars is okay, and probably better than finding one do it all.

2) No because it seems if I go with Jeep GC, I can get reasonable tech assist (ACC+rear cam) with strong if not the best off road performance. It is not as big as traverse or other 7 seats so wife says she doesn't find it intimidating. In any case it seems Jeep may be lower maintenance than discovery or other cars. Also my interest in ACC comes with past experiences where it made highway cruising a breeze. In UAE where people brake and accelerate too often on the highways, this can help.

3) I have a family of 5: parents+wife+baby (car seat) so need either a 3rd row or a wide enough comfortable back seat. It will be great to be able to get both off roading and basic driver assist (ACC) stuff. I might over time sell the traverse, but not in a rush because at this point don't expect it to depreciate all that much and I can test if I really need 7 seats.

Also since I am not selling my traverse, 2nd car budget now revised down to 100K there fore most Prado and GX series cars are out of budget, and Jeep GC looks like a strong contended even otherwise.

38 minutes ago, Rahimdad said:

1. Buying for a second time turned out to be a mistake.

Hi @Rahimdad mind sharing more?  I also read on other Jeep forums about this engine and it appears people are mostly satisfied as long as they did regular maintenance - I am willing to do this.

@Brette pleased to e-meet you! Would you mind sharing your experiences with Jeep GC? Particularly:

1) What you enjoy on road, and

2) If it has limited your mobility off road in any specific situations?

3) Anything else you might like to share?

By the way everyone, I am looking at this Jeep :https://dubai.dubizzle.com/motors/used-cars/jeep/grand-cherokee/2020/6/10/aed1714month-2015-jeep-grand-cherokee-summ-2/

Agent told me owner might do 83k AED, this is the summit edition so lots of tech (some irrelevant to me e.g. dvd player and lcd), powerful engine etc. 50k mileage and dubizzle inspection report says 5/5 (attached). Warranty is ending in July. Does anything look concerning (if anyone has time to spare)? 

 

 

Jeep GC Summit 2015 CarReport.pdf Jeep_GC_Summit_Inspection_Dubizzle.pdf

Edited June 14, 2020 by Shadab Khan

[dune jockey]

32 minutes ago, Shadab Khan said:

2nd car budget now revised down to 100K

In my humble opinion it is still a lot of money for a 2nd car. Please bear in mind the additional expenses to get it serviced, replacing bushes/plates/filters .If you are not happy and just in case want to resell it, then keep in mind the depreciation again after all the expenses. Choose one which doesn't bite you too much 😜

For a capable off roader without biting a lot of money , please have a look at the advise on carnity

I was in a similar situation , then finally decided after lot of discussion here,with friends and with family to go in for a 2nd car for off road. Bought a pretty well maintained X Terra after preliminary checks which was okay. Then in few weeks it was overheating for which different mechanics gave all sorts of advise without coming to a cause. Since 3 weeks I have taken the car to a few garages , and finally it is now hopefully ready for the desert...acknowledgements and a detailed post will come in soon for the people from Carnity who helped and guided me.

I mean this is always expected when you buy a used car and be ready to make few pit stops initially.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Chaitanya D