When to use single long rope and double short rope for towing

[Thomas Varghese]

Can somebody clarify when a single long tow rope is to be used for pulling out a stuck car and when somebody has to double up the rope make it shorter and tug. I witnessed this during yesterday's drive with @Foxtrot Oscar. I was stuck in a difficult situation and initially the long rope didn't work and Angela doubled up the rope and out came the car. I suppose @Frederic or @Gaurav or @Rahimdad can offer a plausible scientific explanation.  

[Rahimdad]

@Thomas Varghese since I have not seen the situation and @Foxtrot Oscar made the recovery she would be in better position to answer your question. Since you have driven on many a drives you would appreciate the fact that every recovery has its own set of challenges and thus requires different solutions. In my point of view I have learned that normal recoveries can be easily made by a normal rope with ample of space around. You generally double a rope in cramped up spaces where you need a couple of hard tugs to get some control over the situation. I have even been involved 8n a recovery where due to very little space we had to quadruple the rope, @Gaurav bhai and I both learned our lesson from that recovery. Its been 12 years since I've been off-roading and still learning this art. I'm glad you're asking questions as it's the best way to learn.

[Thomas Varghese]

Just now, Rahimdad said:

@Thomas Varghese since I have not seen the situation and @Foxtrot Oscar made the recovery she would be in better position to answer your question. Since you have driven on many a drives you would appreciate the fact that every recovery has its own set of challenges and thus requires different solutions. In my point of view I have learned that normal recoveries can be easily made by a normal rope with ample of space around. You generally double a rope in cramped up spaces where you need a couple of hard tugs to get some control over the situation. I have even been involved 8n a recovery where due to very little space we had to quadruple the rope, @Gaurav bhai and I both learned our lesson from that recovery. Its been 12 years since I've been off-roading and still learning this art. I'm glad you're asking questions as it's the best way to learn.

I joined @Carnity to have fun and learn as well. Yes Angela @Foxtrot Oscar mentioned she has to give a hard tug. The 1st tug with the long kinetic rope didn't work as planned and then she instructed to double up the rope and the car just came out very easily. To tell you the truth I didn't believe the car can come out easily as she demonstrated. Of course she has the experience and I'm interested in knowing the mechanics how a shorter doubled up rope aids you when a longer rope doesn't serve the purpose. 

[Foxtrot Oscar]

It was exactly as @Rahimdad said @Thomas Varghese

 

yiu were basically wedged between two dunes with nowhere to move except to the right. I didn’t have a lot of space behind me for the correct angle . I risked going down a valley and being attached to you via a tight rope. I tried it once knowing it probably wouldn’t work then doubled up as I knew I would get more power and with you steering hard right you should be able to get out . And you did 

[Thomas Varghese]

4 minutes ago, Foxtrot Oscar said:

It was exactly as @Rahimdad said @Thomas Varghese

 

yiu were basically wedged between two dunes with nowhere to move except to the right. I didn’t have a lot of space behind me for the correct angle . I risked going down a valley and being attached to you via a tight rope. I tried it once knowing it probably wouldn’t work then doubled up as I knew I would get more power and with you steering hard right you should be able to get out . And you did 

Thanks Angela for pulling me out and for the explanation. I was thinking whether doubling up the rope doubled the pulling force which is mechanically not possible. The cars are the same, the force exerted is the same, the only difference the rope was doubled and made shorter. The 1st attempt with the longer single rope didn't serve the purpose whereas the 2nd attempt was successful. From that time I was trying to understand the mechanics behind this and now I got the perfect answer. It was not doubling up the force but shortening the rope gave you much better maneuverability to pull and helped in the successful recovery. 

I will remember this lesson for all my offroading days. 

 

THANK YOU @Foxtrot Oscar

[M.Seidam]

Speaking of Kinetic recovery ropes generally as we know it stretches to 30% of its length before the actual pull happens. And this is additional room requirement. 
Shortening or doubling the length of the kinetic rope I believe has nothing to do with the amount of force generated and transmitted to the rope to stretch , recover and recoil more than the situation ( tight space to operate the tug  , terrain ( soft /super soft sand , wider space  with incline not in favour of both the recovering car and car being recovered , intention to redirect for better self recovery ) ... each situation has its own dilemma which needs a moment of look and thinking of  what is best for any particular given situation. 
The more you see the more you become familiar and bit more experienced .. and this is another reason why I do keep bouncing on rubber on weekly basis ( that’s me ) 😅

[Thomas Varghese]

1 minute ago, Mohamed Seidam said:

Speaking of Kinetic recovery ropes generally as we know it stretches to 30% of its length before the actual pull happens. And this is additional room requirement. 
Shortening or doubling the length of the kinetic rope I believe has nothing to do with the amount of force generated and transmitted to the rope to stretch , recover and recoil more than the situation ( tight space to operate the tug  , terrain ( soft /super soft sand , wider space  with incline not in favour of both the recovering car and car being recovered , intention to redirect for better self recovery ) ... each situation has its own dilemma which needs a moment of look and thinking of  what is best for any particular given situation. 
The more you see the more you become familiar and bit more experienced .. and this is another reason why I do keep bouncing on rubber on weekly basis ( that’s me ) 😅

I'm sorry to trouble everybody with my silly doubts and questions but as all Thomas's are referred to as Doubting Thomas I feel relaxed when every doubt is cleared, otherwise my brain will not rest until I find the answer. 

Thanks to all for bearing with me. 

[M.Seidam]

@Thomas Varghese nothing to be sorry about my dear , the other way around , your question today was just sparking an experience I had yesterday literally speaking in the “ wide and tight “ situations ... we are in this hobby enjoying yet learning so we better play it always safer 👍😉

[Thomas Varghese]

3 minutes ago, Mohamed Seidam said:

@Thomas Varghese nothing to be sorry about my dear , the other way around , your question today was just sparking an experience I had yesterday literally speaking in the “ wide and tight “ situations ... we are in this hobby enjoying yet learning so we better play it always safer 👍😉

So now you can shout EUREKA and run. Have clothes on please - not like Archimedes. 

This question was troubling me since the time @Foxtrot Oscar pulled me out from an impossible suck situation as per me. What changed the mechanics of the tug she gave when she doubled up the rope. She herself gave the answer. Nothing to do with mechanics. It was all about maneuverability. Experience counts of course. The answer satisfied my doubt.  

Edited March 13, 2021 by Thomas Varghese

[Thomas Varghese]

1 hour ago, Mohamed Seidam said:

@Thomas Varghese nothing to be sorry about my dear , the other way around , your question today was just sparking an experience I had yesterday literally speaking in the “ wide and tight “ situations ... we are in this hobby enjoying yet learning so we better play it always safer 👍😉

I hope other aspiring drivers who are ardent fans of offroading sees this thread and learn something. As Angela correctly put it yesterday due to Covid restrictions most of the drivers don't get to see recoveries and other actions and only a select few are called in to help. The newcomers like me just keep driving until they themselves become the center of attention by a refusal or stuck or pop out. COVID GO AWAY Please.