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@samamara on a very serious note, why don't you literally write down first your full requirements and then put a percentage wise need of those requirements. What I mean to say that initially you needed a powerful 4x4 that can go further than your 3.5 Jero, then you added 4 passengers, then they become 4 photographer who would need window access, and now camping. So now you also need to factor ton of camping and advance photographer gear space in the boot and I'm seeing if this is your ultimate requirement then you would need LWB Patrol or Land Cruiser (I think). No Xterra, JL, Pajero boot can through with all camping and photographer gears. I know I may sound fussy here, but every little detail in you car shopping requirement keep changing the final outcome and you might make a wrong purchase eventually. And what I mean with percentage wise if you use 70% on-road, 25% off-road and 5% with 4 photographers then ask your yourself if its worth sacrificing power weight, nimble 4x4 that can take you lot higher than ULTRA-LWB people carrier. If its other way around go with your choice. Why I'm mentioning this, because many people came here before to buy overlander for once in a lifetime trip they want to plan and end up buying xterra and then rubicon. Fast forward if people can foresee things ahead of time, they can make a better decision and be more happy with the final outcome - "much sooner". Similarly many of my friends made a mistake of buying LWB 4x4 as they are expecting their parents in town and want to take them off-road. After a month, they have gone and he is still stuck with LWB that is def not a climber. He could have simply rented a LWB for a month or a week when wish to take them off-road. So you need to list all your requirement first and then put an honest percentage to really make a logical decision than any brand affinity of people saying "my car" is the best. Think it hard, think it through for at least 5-10 years of possible and probable requirements first, then add the percentage.

Lawrence_Chehimi @Lawrence_Chehimi darren thompson @darren thompson Tareck @Tareck Alain Canivet-Abikhalil @Alain Canivet-Abikhalil Watteau @Watteau Rjducos @Rjducos Ishraque @Ishraque Hi all, YOu're confirmed for the drive on Thursday. The plan? Creep up to Pink Rock from the farms (not 2nd December) and then make our way from PR to Big Red. At Big Red we will have a little play on some of the bigger dunes, hoping that be driving on Thursday there are not too many cross tracks. If all goes to plan, we will be doing some nice fluid dune driving and enough climbs to give everyone the chance to see how high your car will go. Depending on time and convoy capabilities, we will take it form there ... See you soon in the sand. Current W/L: @Ranjan Das @Sunil Mathew @Charbel @Anoop Nair

...is actually the Nissan Patrol Y61 (SWB or LWB). Reality is, the ultimate off roader car is that one you feel most comfortable in. Without a doubt all makes and models discussed here are capable of handling the terrains in UAE. Apart from test drive different models, do a search for "uae overland photography" and you may get some results that inspire you. All the best in your quest!

Your 16-35mm will still give you a lovely shot! I Also have a 5DM4 and I use a Tokina 11-16mm on it which, unfortunately, is made for a crop sensor. I can still use it but not down past 14mm without significant vignetting so even at 15-16mm you'll get lovely wide views (which I'm sure you know already ). That lens, by the way, is not so expensive and has given me very clear astro shots (see attachment taken in Rub al Khali last Milky Way season); even if it's for a crop-sensor you may want to consider it. You can give mine a go on Thursday night if you want, once all is said and done with our shoot .

Here’s the drive video.

Below you can the Camera Settings as preparation for Astrophotography. Nicely summed up by @Mikhail Lukichev and will serve as a good reminder before starting any night photography session. select RAW mode decrease brightness of the screen to minimum disable long exposure noise reduction disable high ISO noise reduction select manual focus mode turn on live-view zoom in the picture in the live view mode select manual shooting mode (M) disable auto ISO set ISO to 3200 set shutter speed to 15sec set aperture to minimum (f1.8 - F3.5) set manual white balance to 3200-3500K Equipment List 1) tripod suitable for your camera. There is no need to have an expensive tripod, however, if your camera and lens is heavy, sturdy tripod would be handy. 2) DSLR or mirrorless camera able to shoot in raw with exposure time up to 20 seconds. If you do not have one, you can try to shoot with a simple point and shoot camera or phone, but lack of settings could be an issue. If you have a camera but not sure if it is suitable or not, feel free to ask here! 3) wide angle lens. Actually, any kit lens should work fine. Do not bring your telephoto lens or a portrait lens this time, we will not use it. Again, if your are not sure what to bring with you, feel free to ask! 4) a bit of adhesive tape would be handy but not mandatory. 5) fully charged battery for your camera. 6) red light headlamp. Red light helps a lot operating your camera and not overstressing your eyes

We should add a betting feature on such thread, once car buyer is fully aware after receiving all experts and owner advises, then we can place our bets on which car he/she will go for, but privately, that will be only revelead once buyer reveals the purchase.

@Tbone have spotted this during the drive but we decided to inform him after to not to cause panic.

@Gaurav@Zed @munkybizness@Ashok chaturvedi @Savio Fernandes @Paul Zeitoun @samamara@Niki @AbdullaB @BipinM @Humayun Ghias@Zabi Khan @Joseph Sebastian @Alexander Alcala @varunmehndiratta Thanks for the massive signup and i hope we can make it a joyful session where we can relax and learn from each-other ! A few pointers to make this session go smooth: 1) Upon arrival, please park your vehicle on the designated parking ONLY : https://goo.gl/maps/gofwLBvNe6ihknJs9 If you want to cross the bridge and take photos near the trees, i would like to ask you to take out your gear and walk for that small distance. We will be having 15 cars so let's keep it safe for everyone. 2) People will be setting up their cameras, and we want to keep the area as dark as possible, so please avoid switching on your headlights of your cars during the session or driving around. Carry a small headlight (red light is perfect). 3) Make sure to keep your mask during the session. Same COVID19 guidelines as we do on our Offroad Drives. 4) Bring your Walkie Talkie and tune in to Channel 1: 446.006 Mhz. This way if you need help from someone, you can radio in for assistance. It will be pitch dark in the area so it will also ensure that we know where everyone is. As myself and some other members will be having an off-road drive earlier the same night, we will try to reach the meeting point before midnight. In case we are delayed, do not wait for us but you can start the session. The area is large and open and you can take your time to setup your camera either on the pier, bridge, or near the trees. Please do not cross the bridge with your car, as the sand looks quite hard but i don't want to see cars getting stuck in the muddy patch near the water's edge ! If you have any questions in setting up your camera, please use this discussion topic so we can try to help you out. There is also very useful information on the subject in below post:

Good point @Rizwanm2 but this also depends on the rim width a little bit. If i remember correctly, the 16inch Pajero rims are 7.5 Inch width, so according to below table they are suitable for 265 and 275 tires. So yes in theory the 275 would work as well, and on an Xterra the power loss from a slightly heavier tire will be minimal, but on a Pajero we need to try to preserve every horse

@Zabi Khan @Humayun Ghias @Joseph Sebastian @Alexander Alcala @varunmehndiratta I have added you all to the session as we will be extending the RSVP limit. Please do confirm if you can make it or not.

Dear @Ajit John @mkhatry @Savio Fernandes @Adam James @Gilbert Khalil You have been added to the drive. We will have a double convoy, one of which will be lead by @Gaurav. For the moment @munkybizness, @Ramandbx, @Joji vargheseand @Alexanderrr you will be from #1 to #4 in the waiting list, until the drive will open up again also to "second drives". Thanks to all for your confirmation and participation.

@Joseph Sebastian Thank you - you are so kind 🙏🏼😊. You're right, it wasn't a quick point and shoot but the planning wasn't so difficult or time-consuming. The point of the footprints is a good one; I looked for a dune that had a nice ripple pattern and then made sure not even to sneeze near it to disrupt it, let alone walk on it 😂. So yes, it was a 16mm focal length (this lens is a real trooper that while for a crop sensor does great on my full frame as I said), 8s exposure, f/2.8 and 3200ISO. I definitely used a tripod and a shutter release. The white balance is not in the Exif data and I can't remember exactly but I generally I keep the kelvin level between 3200 and 4000 depending how dark the sky is. White balance is the easiest thing to change in Photoshop though and while it's always best to get what you can straight out of the camera, there isn't a single MW photo on the planet that isn't edited so you can always keep that in mind later. For the focus, I focused on the stars and because it was such a big aperture the dune was fortunately crisp as well - so it is a single shot, not a composite ❤️. To focus on the stars it's best to use the live view of your camera, get one star, magnify and focus on that star (manually) and that should do it. Once you know your lens, this becomes easier. The foreground is lit with a small video light off to the left, at a low (looww) setting (since it's a longer exposure), and it only took a shot or three to get it to the right place and strength. And a final note on exposure: this was 8s but that's a 'first calculated, then adjusted' number. You need to calculate how long you can keep the shutter open without getting star trails if you want crisp star points (as opposed to trails). You can use the 500 rule but I would highly recommend using the NPF rule instead (you can google these for more info and let me know if you need any clarity). Yes, it is Rub al Khali - one of my favourite places in the country and I can't wait to go there next month (and October - the picture I shared was shot in October ❤️) and yes, it's hard to beat that. If I went deeper into the desert, closer to the Saudi border, there'd be even less light but I agree the light here adds to it. That said, the second darkest place in the country is Wadi Showka (not the dam area but the actual wadi, and the place we're going on Thursday, Wadi Buraq, is also good as it's quite near to Showka. I've shared these photos before in another thread but I'll post them again (I'm sorry for the repeat all and that they are so big 🙏🏼). The MW shot is from Buraq and the star trails are from Showka. So don't worry, there's plenty of dark there to enjoy some astro shooting when we can't quite hit up the Empty Quarter 😍🤩! Thank you again for your kind words and don't at all feel badly about the questions. I love talking shop when it comes to photography and am always super happy to help ❤️ !

Same! Here are my favorites

I increased the width of my XJ's tyre from stock 235 mm to 268 mm (31 inch x 10.5 x 15) on the same rim width of 7.5 inch. That has also ensured that I have not had a single popout in 3 years, even when driving on very low pressures as well as hitting some nasty bumps. But unlike in the Xterra where you have not had inner fender rubbing issues by increasing the tyre width, in the Pajero you will most definitely have rubbing issues with stock rims unless you upgrade to deep dish rims or put in spacers. And I concur with Fred, that the benefit of upsizing from 265 to 275 is negligible compared to the headaches involved.

Sorry for the same. hope your wife will be fine, and recover soon Might be second choise @Wrangeld, but will be the first drive in the weekend. All other drives will be next day Friday

Hi @Wrangeld... Yes I couldn't attend last time unfortunately due to some personal reasons. I have done one drive with carnity about 18months back on a range rover sport but bought a second hand wrangler a few months back (2012 sahara) for the very purpose of joining back the club on a much longer term basis this time. Thought I will begin again on the absolute newbie drive to test the car and get myself aquainted with the basics again and move up the ladder to advance drives. Excited for the drive on Friday.

Brilliant advice @samamara thanks for that. I love the fact that you applied some light to the dune, i would never have thought about that. @Joseph Sebastian to get your image sharp during astrophotography, you will need to use the manual focus and point your lens at the brightest star you can find. Switch on your live-view screen and start turning the lens until the star "white dot" is at its smallest, that would mean it's a the sharpest point. Then you can apply some tape to the lens to keep it at that setting, otherwise you might risk bumping into it and losing focus. Of course, a tripod is needed for this kind of shots, and while a remote shutter is helpful, you can instead use the timer setting, so from the moment you push the release it will start beeping for a few seconds and then take the shot. This will ensure you are not accidentally touching the camera or shaking it. When it comes to lenses, try to use the lens you have in your arsenal with the fastest aperture (F2.8 or less). This will simply make sure you can capture more light. A wide angle lens works great for this kind of photography, so anything from 11-24mm will give a very nice result, but if you do not have a wide angle lens, you can even experiment with a nifty-fifty 50mm lens which will give you a nice fast aperture of 1.8. ISO setting is something you will need to experiment with, and will depend on your camera and lens. You can perhaps start at 1200 ISO and keep increasing but it's best no go too high. You will find that 3200 usually works well. Shutter speed will again depend on the lens you are using and ISO setting. It will probably be around 8-15 seconds but could be higher if needed, but you want to avoid star trailing. The 500 rule or NPF rule will give you a good indication. https://petapixel.com/2017/04/07/npf-rule-formula-sharp-star-photos-every-time/ night-sky-cheat-sheet-new (4).pdf

And with no windscreen...now I just need someone to drive it for me always so I can be ready. But, part of my passion is also the drive, so maybe I can get the best of both worlds 😍!

That's where you missed the point brother...in dangerous sport of offroading it's the momentum that matters ..i am not going to let go that Mass ..😂😂😂

🤫 just take the credit and move on! Samamara already has so many ‘likes’ and ‘wow’ she’s not even paying attention any more!

@Hisham Masaad #1 you have brought your son up well it seems! #2 don’t bother posting your requirements, the answer to your (and any 4x4) question for us, is ….. an FJ! We are hard wired to our cars! @varunmehndiratta The rear space in an FJ serves as our motivation to get into shape! The car doesn’t only takes care of us off road! I have started to draft the peace treaty …. This could be a monumental week

Thank you @M.Seidam for your contribution and advice on this topic 😊. I'm hoping to go for something bank-funded yes, but not brand new. My father warned me (like a million times 😂) never to buy a brand new car, and I'd rather not go that deep into a huge monthly payment anyway. I've found lots of reasonably priced second-hand cars, though this thread is the first time I've heard of the need to buy a 'clean' car, so I'll keep that on my list of things to keep in mind for sure. To be honest my daily use of the car is not heavy duty or anything; I live less than 10km away from work and I live in the ever-lovely RAK so most daily needs are within a 20 minutes drive at most. My weekends are a different story, as you can find me anywhere in the country - desert, wadi, whatever - but that means a 2-5 hour drive depending on where I want to go. Fuel efficiency doesn't have to be a top consideration over comfort and noise in the cabin. Living in RAK also means that "RTA Approved" is not super important; things in RAK are a little...easier 😂. I've been asked to move the crash/bumper guards off my Pajero every single year and never have, which the guy at the testing centre thought hilarious 🤷🏻‍♀️😂. Thanks again, Mohamed - I will definitely take my short list and my needs together with all of this advice and hope I make the best decision! Thanks @Hisham Masaad - hoping for the best!

You never know @Niki, peace might come soon. My sun Abdelghani started taking driving courses, and his eyes are open on my Fj. If decide to look for another car, I will post on the forum, asking for suggestions again, matching my requirements and preferences. Looks will be convinced by Jeep (after so much brain wash happening 😂)buy it, drive it, and start recommending it Wish you all the best @samamara, hoping you decision will be the best for you. Look forward to see you in sand enjoying your new car

Hi @Islam Soliman I added my self to manage tab , first time in your lead 😊

@samamara I almost am glad I found carnity ‘after’ I decided the car to buy!!!!! 😳 … your short list has got longer. I don’t think there’s a wrong choice in the list given… if buying new using the banks cash - Jeep is the only new or nearly new car still on your list. Photo trips where your passengers can stand as the roof is off and shoot freely cannot be rivaled. Also go head out to the nearest dealership and go for a true test drive to get a sense of the road comfort and noise… our ears on this forum are programmed due to, as Gaurav calls it, ‘brand afinity’ … let your own ears and experince be the ultimate judge! My experience in Jeeps with the roof down… the novelty wears off very quickly on highways and dunes … however your Wadi adventures are a completely different game and that experience would I imagine add a completely new dimension (ability to look up and out as you cruise).

All credit to my lovely wife who really did well for her very first drive….@Frederic we should organize a lens night drive to capture these kid of pictures with a proper digital SLR…Just a suggestion … Our Instagram will be grateful

The rear door window opens. The rear passengers' windows do not open. My rear passengers said FJ is good because it shield them from the blazing hot sun of UAE.

Only because my office just announced a holiday for Thursday @Wrangeld! 😄

Yes this is my only drive Yes this my only drive

@samamara thanks very much for your patience and that detailed answer covering all the points. Cleared up a lot on the theory side, now for the practical part and trying to produce something passable! The other two pics you have shared including the star trails are excellent as well. Also, thanks @Frederic for your valuable inputs as. For me focusing on the night sky has always been a challenge as my camera is a little old and while it has many customizable features the live view is a very basic one. One can have the best camera and lens - but if the camera shakes or if the focus is off may as well be a pinhole camera But I guess a lot of practice is called for to get the technique right and given that practicing is more than half the fun. here's hoping I can make it on to the drive 🤞

275 would also make it more heavy and prone to rubbing the fender, so i would advise to go for the 265/70/16 AT. Wider tyres are not necessarily better in offroading.

Just wanted to revisit this discussion - i currently have 265/70/16 (highway tyres) on my pajero and want to upgrade to geolander AT tyres with R16 - i have 2 choices as per yokohama dealership 1) 265/70/16 - AT (my current tyre size) 2) 275/70/16 - AT Just wanted to get ur views on which one to choose and which one would help in the sand, pop outs etc. 275 would give it more width but not sure how that would help in the sands

Hi Ale Yes this will be my 2nd drive with Carnity Thanks Mahesh

Great looking forward ..haven't met @Gaurav since i believe my first or second newbie drive..see.you there.

@Gaurav - that is very sound advice, thank you ❤️ 🙏🏼. It's true, beyond all of the advice here - which has been great - I need to think of my specific needs. I will say, though, that the Pajero trunk/back/boot has been stellar for all of my camping needs even when I have people with me and we take a lot of gear. The backseat is usually reserved for photography gear and guests (which is why the FJ just can't work really, but enough on that I think. You're absolutely right...I need to weigh not only what I need but the priorities and now that I am armed with all of this information I think I need to take a few of the options out for a test drive, see how they actually are on the inside for space and options, and then go from there. All of this, though, really has ensured that the decision I make will be much more well-informed, which is always a good thing. Thanks to you and all 😊🙏🏼!

@samamara that is a really fantastic shot, I am sure you are being very modest and a lot of planning and work went into it. Even the dune in the foreground is perfectly lit and without any blemishes like footmarks...really well done! Will be grateful if you could share some data while you have already shared some info...Lens focal length ~16mm (very clear for a zoom lens!) and ISO 3200 (impressive low level of noise still, says a lot about your sensor and camera) Could you also let us know what you used for shutter speed and aperture? White balance? guess you used a tripod and a remote shutter release? any tips to get the right focus? Was it a single shot or blended a foreground shot with the sky shot...could you give some details if and how you light painted the foreground (perfectly done)..... Location I guess you aced it with Rub Al Khali - doubt if we can find a similar low light pollution area within Dubai or Sharjah...there is a glow from the horizon right side but even that adds to the picture rather than detracts from it as it contrasts against the part of the dune which is in shadow... Sorry for the many questions,,,but If I can get a shot as good as this I would consider my lifes work done Thanks!

Then it's definitely not for me 😂💔. This photographer needs access to all windows all the time...you never know what's around you in the desert and you have to be ready to shoot anywhere 😂❤️📷!

@Niki 😂😂😂 I appreciate every one of them, even if they are sometimes undeserved 😂! But now I'll keep my eyes on you when I post one of my shots 😂😂!

Hi. As 12th was full had to opt for 13th but 12th is my preferred day if a slot opens up. Thanks.

Thanks @M.Seidam - I'm starting to lean back toward the Wrangler again after some scared me away...this conversation has helped me to see that some of my fears were unfounded, though I've still not yet decided. As others have mentioned, I need to test drive a few options before truly knowing which ones I want. Though now I have to make sure I understand completely the differences between all the Wranglers 😂😂😂. At this rate I'll be driving my Pajero for ages more!

Hi @Pieter Potgieter. I have added you as the 12th driver. @Alexanderrr you are also added to the waiting list. Thanks

Thanks @Hisham Masaad 😂 I do know but as I said, that's now a hard no for me 💔. The idea that it's a bit tight in the back for grownups (which you can guess by looking at it) is a bit discomforting (literally and figuratively 😂), but the fact that the back seat windows don't roll down is the ultimate deal breaker. As I mentioned, my desert expeditions are mainly for photography (and camping ❤️); having windows that don't go down is just not feasible in any way, sadly. Though I do appreciate the love that you and your fellow FJ-ers have for the vehicle - which does seem amazing in every other way - it's just not for me 😔.

I see peace coming behind the dunes , always 😄

@Frederic I have came have come once before and carry my EOS 5D Mark IV cannon with several lens but lost my wide angle and cant affoard to replace it. Have 3 other lens 24-70 mm, 16-35 mm and zoom 70-200 mm.

Hahaha @Niki ... I actually like FJ Xtreme has really a nice feel to it, especially lole the way doors open. It's pretty unique and cool....only thing that i have been trying to figure out is where to go once the mystery door opens...😃😃😃 It's a beautiful lamp but no space for poor Genie...😉😉

When @varunmehndiratta recommends a Toyota and @Hisham Masaad a Jeep … we will officially declare peace in the Middle East @samamara … this has made a great read for us all … thanks for starting the discussion and for all that shared. Keep us posted on your findings and decision!

Thanks @Gaurav ... @Ale Vallecchi will waitlist myself from other drive...finding water is more imp for sustainable world...😃😃👍

I have done camping at Wadi Sena few times. Morning view is awesome. Most beautiful sunrise I have ever seen.

Talking about distant planet….I love the poetry of your post @munkybizness