Jeep Wrangler 4High vs 4Low

[Gary F]

2 hours ago, Zed said:

Congrats on reaching 50 drives @Gary F and your willingness to experiment to find your own driving style 👍🏻 . Please document it like this https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2SVhe5JgRU/?igsh=azVsa3B2c3VnZmN6 (middle of video he revealed it's 4Lo 3rd gear). Science says an experiment that can be repeated by others using the same tools means your paper is accepted by peer reviews and you've proven your point 😅

Pro Tip: start from 4Lo 3rd gear. ZF Transmission Triptronic is awesome that it will automatically cycle 1st & 2nd for you and hold in 3rd. Most Torque Curve diagrams say 3000-3500rpm is engine's peak torque, so when climbing, you want to find the best gear that's in that range and not go above 5000rpm (contrary to most beliefs, at 5000rpm you're actually losing torque).

Once you're in flatter areas, upshift to 4Lo 4th or above to keep rpm in the 2000-2500 rpm range to save petrol, and cool both engine & transmission. Downshift again before climbing. And when you're stuck, you're already in 4Lo so you can just shift to 1st or 2nd and do the blip-blip 🙂

*Also call me if you're going to choose Sweihan, Faya or Khatim for testing grounds, be happy to join if not busy ✌🏻

Thinking we may need a variety of Jeep configs and a single driver to test and settle the debate once and for all. 
 

regarding RPM in offroad+ modes on newer jeeps at least in D they really Like to stay on the higher side of 4000 before changing. Hence I often override in tiptronic, because off-road + mode for at least make the throttle much more responsive.

[Gaurav]

3 hours ago, Pavel Pashkovskiy said:

To talk about Jeep, you must have Jeep at first. To talk about proper Jeep you must have Jeep and first and make from it proper Jeep at second. Only people who passed all this steps can prove difference. 

Any stock car can climb something, even Toyota Corolla. 

Carnity is a platform that values the voices of all car owners and off-roaders for open discussion. Ultimately, whether one finds satisfaction in their vehicle, modified or not, is entirely a personal choice.

Reflecting on your Masterclass on February 28, 2023, where the focus was on exploring the world of off-roading without succumbing to the expenses of yachting, it's evident that each sport and lifestyle has its unique approach. Some prefer a more light-hearted experience, while others venture to the extreme.

In the realm of off-roading, it's important to note that the Carnity off-road club isn't tailored for those seeking an extreme adventure. Numerous splinter clubs exist, each showcasing their prowess every week, engaging in the perpetual debate of who can outperform the other.

Frederic, boasting over 8 years of off-roading experience with four different vehicles, doesn't own a Jeep, possibly sharing a sentiment similar to mine. I, too, find Jeeps to be a bit unreliable compared to their Japanese counterparts. This perspective is rooted in the experiences during the 2007-2014 production line, where Wranglers faced numerous issues, particularly in the desert of Dubai. Now, the JL model is diligently working to rebuild that tarnished reputation, making significant strides, though perhaps with a humorous nod to the crank seal challenges.

In essence, you've effectively shared your perspectives through your successful mods and presented your argument in this discussion with a reasonable rationale, which is commendable. Let's kindly conclude the conversation there to uphold the positive and constructive nature of this debate.

[Gaurav]

2 hours ago, Josh S said:

For those driving in 4H, how often are you in First vs Second gear?  

The more Auto you use, Auto will learn off-road shifting as well more intuitively.

In general, I use 90% Auto, but I know my Pajero gearbox is different than many newer ones.

For most cars, Including wranglers: For a long hill climb, start with second and once you start the climb, shift to first before your revs drop below 3 to 3.5K RPM. In this approach, you gain with the momentum of second gear and climb 20-40% of the climb in second gear and then use first gear power - all the way up, as high as it goes.

In Liwa, Qua, Wagan humungous dunes, you can start with third gear and follow by second and first.

[Josh S]

14 minutes ago, Gaurav said:

The more Auto you use, Auto will learn off-road shifting as well more intuitively.

In general, I use 90% Auto, but I know my Pajero gearbox is different than many newer ones.

For most cars, Including wranglers: For a long hill climb, start with second and once you start the climb, shift to first before your revs drop below 3 to 3.5K RPM. In this approach, you gain with the momentum of second gear and climb 20-40% of the climb in second gear and then use first gear power - all the way up, as high as it goes.

In Liwa, Qua, Wagan humungous dunes, you can start with third gear and follow by second and first.

Very interesting approach. I never thought about it in this “reverse” way, but understood that shifting on a climb is not ideal as you lose all your torque. Perhaps that’s when starting in first and shifting up to second as you max the RPM of first. 

[Gaurav]

6 minutes ago, Josh S said:

but understood that shifting on a climb is not ideal as you lose all your torque.

Yes, correct, if you wait till rev drops below 3K, it's useless to downshift, and even with years of experience we do this sometimes, so we come down and try again with crisp shifting. 

Some cars with heavy torque like Patrol pick up 1st at 3K rpm, while others may struggle. So give it a few tries and find out where your car best responds to downshift and still continue climbing. 3.0 - 3.5k RPM is generally a good sweet spot for all cars to start with. 4K might be early shifting.

Basically you wanna use 1st gear fresh power to the last most torque-intensive climb part and not waste it on flat ground.

[Pavel Pashkovskiy]

55 minutes ago, Gaurav said:

Carnity is a platform that values the voices of all car owners and off-roaders for open discussion. Ultimately, whether one finds satisfaction in their vehicle, modified or not, is entirely a personal choice.

Reflecting on your Masterclass on February 28, 2023, where the focus was on exploring the world of off-roading without succumbing to the expenses of yachting, it's evident that each sport and lifestyle has its unique approach. Some prefer a more light-hearted experience, while others venture to the extreme.

In the realm of off-roading, it's important to note that the Carnity off-road club isn't tailored for those seeking an extreme adventure. Numerous splinter clubs exist, each showcasing their prowess every week, engaging in the perpetual debate of who can outperform the other.

Frederic, boasting over 8 years of off-roading experience with four different vehicles, doesn't own a Jeep, possibly sharing a sentiment similar to mine. I, too, find Jeeps to be a bit unreliable compared to their Japanese counterparts. This perspective is rooted in the experiences during the 2007-2014 production line, where Wranglers faced numerous issues, particularly in the desert of Dubai. Now, the JL model is diligently working to rebuild that tarnished reputation, making significant strides, though perhaps with a humorous nod to the crank seal challenges.

In essence, you've effectively shared your perspectives through your successful mods and presented your argument in this discussion with a reasonable rationale, which is commendable. Let's kindly conclude the conversation there to uphold the positive and constructive nature of this debate.

Gaurav, with all my respect to everyone. I was replying on specific, Jeep (even more detailed Sand Runner/Mojave) comment based on my personal experience. Of course everyone can comment and discuss what ever they want, but would be great to keep discussion on the specific/detailed level following post/comment entry. It's not really professional to interfere in to discussion very specifically related to certain issue/point of view, without being real member of this (Jeep/Heavy Modified Jeep) community. We did not discussed in general, we was exchanging specific and sensitive information/opinion. I will never be discussing something where i don't have any experience even after 20 years in offroading.

Now about "elementary school". I am very happy that i was in Carnity, in begining of my offroading life. Until now i am recommending to every absolute newbee to join Carnity, because it's great elementary school in offroading. Nothing wrong to be in elementary school, all of us start there as a kids or newbee offroader. Problem is to stack at elementary school. There is many grate examples, and i know personally some drivers who become Marshals in highly reputated clubs, after starting in Carnity.

 

[Benjamin]

7 hours ago, Pavel Pashkovskiy said:

Did you tune your engine and gearbox? If not, you will not be able to climb in 4H or 4L. Offroading it is hobby and even lifestyle. Doing it, keeping in mind what happen with warranty or what says your insurance, means limiting yourself in most interesting part of it. If you want proper Jeep you must tune it. Minimum requirements are adjusting cooling system, tunning engine, tunning gearbox for faster switching. Out of than the minimum requirements for the engine tuning are proper air intake and exhaust. All above means bye-bye warranty. Ready for it? Go for it, you will not regret. Not ready? You can keep discussing about 4H, 4L... Nothing will help. You will never go outside of "elementary school".

I have done no re-gearing so far and I can comfortably drive on all levels. Maybe even push harder. Though I would be interested to know the difference between elementary school and secondary school when it comes to the desert 😂. 
 

as for 4H and 4L I still primarily drive in 4H unless I need more torque which I can change on the go. Keep in mind this is with a regular jeep wrangler sport trim 

however I agree with @Frederic I’m happy being part of elementary school if it means everyone is having fun & being safe 

[Pavel Pashkovskiy]

20 minutes ago, Benjamin said:

I have done no re-gearing so far and I can comfortably drive on all levels. Maybe even push harder. Though I would be interested to know the difference between elementary school and secondary school when it comes to the desert 😂. 
 

as for 4H and 4L I still primarily drive in 4H unless I need more torque which I can change on the go. Keep in mind this is with a regular jeep wrangler sport trim 

however I agree with @Frederic I’m happy being part of elementary school if it means everyone is having fun & being safe 

Regearing it's not one of the necessary part of Jeep upgrades, and it's not required unless you are changing your tires for 2 or more size up. If you still using stock tires, regearing not required. However this is one of the sign of the difference between schools. 

In general driving stock Wrangler offroad for me it's like using smartphone for professional photography, instead of dslr camera. Or home kitchen wear in professional restorant kitchen. Is it possible? Generally, yes. Are professionals doing that? No.

As i mentioned above, nothing wrong to be in elementary school, worst thing is to stack there. We have some good examples when drivers "Graduated" from Carnity elementary school become Marshals and sharing their experience with new drivers in other clubs. And Carnity must be proud of them.

[Gaurav]

It's a different school of thought.

What you consider graduation, both we and the car manufacturer hesitate to endorse, mainly due to concerns about reliability and safety.

Our core philosophy revolves around off-roading and nothing else...!

Off-roading is much more beyond than just a straight hill climb.

We emphasize the importance of navigating the same dune with a blend of skills, experience, and a flexible approach, as opposed to a direct assault that could potentially cause unnecessary damage, bruised egos, or confidence (most important).

Based on my experience in tinkering with cars to climb higher, I realized buying a more potent car is much wiser, reliable, safer, and cheaper in the long run. 392, Raptor R, Bronco Raptor, TRX will be a better choices for long hill climbs with well-researched engineering backed by warranty, safety and peace of mind.

Modifications have no end and no right or wrong. Every car owner thinks his/her mods are the best and most important. Garages are offering a rate card of mods based on hp you desire from 300 to 3000 hp with LS engines, as Fredy mentioned before. Dig deeper and you will find out the life of those extreme mods are good for 1-2 season max and require constant repairs due to lack of reliability.

Hence we believe in climbing one less dune, but enjoy the trouble-free car and make sure to go back home in the same car after every drive.

[Harshal]

20 hours ago, Josh S said:

For those driving in 4H, how often are you in First vs Second gear?  

Almost never, i keep mine in auto as theres no need to keep in manual unless its a tough climb. Usually in 3-4