Daily car or second car?

[Pavel Pashkovskiy]

52 minutes ago, controlz said:

Completely makes sense! The only reason I was looking at a newer vehicle (excluding the 392) is the price differential between a  new and used Wrangler within 5 years doesn't seem that large, and I know that certain used vehicles require a lot of maintenance. That being said, I have found used Pajero's for a lot cheaper than Wranglers, i.e. Around 80-90k!

You have to change way you are thinking about car maintenance,  especially offroad car maintenance. With 10 years old Wrangler for example, you don't need to go to the dealer for service and maintenance,  you don't need to go even to high level garages in Al Quoz somewhere. 

There is fields of happiness in Sharjah people called scrap yards 😄, you can get there almost new engine for 10k including swapping. I've got there 2018 gearbox for 2.5k+1k for installation. What you are worried about if you can completely change engine and gearbox together for less than 15k? Offroad wheels and rims cost more. 

You can't jump to offroading with standard mentality. If you be always thinking how much will cost your repairs in case you will jump or climb high dune, you will never become part of this life. You have to look for the dune where you might potentially destroy your shocks, and do everything to avoid damages.

Of course all this applicable to higher level of drives, but remember there is only 15 drives between absolute newbie and the level where you will need proper shocks, proper wheels, cold air inrake, exhaust and many more to be able to comply with requirements. 

[Josh S]

You have persuaded me to purchase a used car, so instead of 175k-200k for a new Wrangler I am looking at 70k-120k for a used car.  I found a great 2019 Pajero SWB as I had read this is the perfect car for the desert but after doing more reading, many people don't think the Pajero is good for desert. It seems I can't get this right!! I'll end up not buying a car at this rate.. 

[Frederic]

18 minutes ago, controlz said:

You have persuaded me to purchase a used car, so instead of 175k-200k for a new Wrangler I am looking at 70k-120k for a used car.  I found a great 2019 Pajero SWB as I had read this is the perfect car for the desert but after doing more reading, many people don't think the Pajero is good for desert. It seems I can't get this right!! I'll end up not buying a car at this rate.. 

The Short Wheel Base 3.8 Pajero is a fantastic desert toy, @Stumpy Paj and many others rock it on any level, we even have the 5 door models on high level drives. 
The 3.5 would do fine as well but is slightly more underpowered. 
 

Of course there will always be personal preferences, but if I am correct I think the Pajero is in our Top3 of most used 4x4’s here in the club. @Looperran some numbers on that recently.

 

[Bravoecho]

I would approach it from the angle of whether you want a great car out of the box and leave it be or if you want to play with it, make modifications and customize it.

Some cars are easier to modify then others based on supplier availability so if it is the later stick towards a car that is popular in the region with many options.

Everyone has their own driving style so whether you want solid axle, IFS, etc will be dictated on your own personal preference.

At the end of the day if you can’t decide just buy a Nissan Patrol and you’ll never look back 😜

Edited July 30, 2023 by Bravoecho

[Josh S]

I’m back in Dubai after an extended summer vacation, and keen to get myself a JL wrangler in the next few weeks! It’s been long enough! I’m very aware that the forum recommends buying a stock car where possible, but I’ve seen the value of modified JLs to be much better (a several year old JL that already has important desert mods for the same price or less than an equivalent used stock car). So, you just end up paying more to then add the mods yourself and then eventually lose in greater deprecation. Am I looking at this wrong?

[Mark B]

It’s just with modified cars they have been messed around with, but don’t be fooled by stock cars, a lot of the time they have been modified and returned to stock for sale and then they sell the parts or put them on the next jeep, ultimately buying a used car is always a minefield, but just pay a 3rd party to check the car someone who knows exactly what they are looking at would be my advice! 
 

oh and just a side note, Alfuttaim are doing a modified special addition from the dealer. 
 

Just now, Mark B said:

It’s just with modified cars they have been messed around with, but don’t be fooled by stock cars, a lot of the time they have been modified and returned to stock for sale and then they sell the parts or put them on the next jeep, ultimately buying a used car is always a minefield, but just pay a 3rd party to check the car someone who knows exactly what they are looking at would be my advice! 
 

oh and just a side note, Alfuttaim are doing a modified special addition from the dealer. 
 

 

7 hours ago, controlz said:

I’m back in Dubai after an extended summer vacation, and keen to get myself a JL wrangler in the next few weeks! It’s been long enough! I’m very aware that the forum recommends buying a stock car where possible, but I’ve seen the value of modified JLs to be much better (a several year old JL that already has important desert mods for the same price or less than an equivalent used stock car). So, you just end up paying more to then add the mods yourself and then eventually lose in greater deprecation. Am I looking at this wrong?

It also have beadlocks and BFGKO2s 

[Frederic]

10 hours ago, controlz said:

I’m back in Dubai after an extended summer vacation, and keen to get myself a JL wrangler in the next few weeks! It’s been long enough! I’m very aware that the forum recommends buying a stock car where possible, but I’ve seen the value of modified JLs to be much better (a several year old JL that already has important desert mods for the same price or less than an equivalent used stock car). So, you just end up paying more to then add the mods yourself and then eventually lose in greater deprecation. Am I looking at this wrong?

You have 3 kinds of modified JL's:

1. The ones that have been heavily abused in the desert.. RUN AWAY FROM THOSE AS THEY WILL DRAIN YOUR WALLET

2. The ones that have been driven on beginner level drives only because the owner likes to take it easy.

3. The ones that have been taken the malls only and hardly been offroad at all.

A deep inspection (take a good mechanic with you) should reveal in which category the car belongs, but indeed like @Mark Bmentions in many cases they remove parts and put the car back to stock to sell it, so it's indeed challenging.

There is a large number of Jeep owners that have deep pockets and go for a fully equipped modified to the brim Jeep Wrangler, but due to work or travel hardly take it to the desert. Buying one like that could turn out to be a good deal IF the mods were done properly and with RTA approvals where needed (important one).

 

[Zed]

On 7/23/2023 at 9:59 PM, Pavel Pashkovskiy said:

It's not an issue, it's just specification let say. Rubicon transfer case ratio is 4:1, when Sport, Sahara and Sand Runner/Mojave is 2.71:1 At same driving conditions Rubicon generally much slower, which is huge advange in rock crawling and disadvantage in dunes climbing. Rubicon positioning as an high loaded option, but all that quite useless in the desert. 

@Pavel Pashkovskiy @Mark B  First of all this only matters if you're driving in 4LO, but as a part-time Jeeper, I can confirm to this. I always drive my Cherokee in 4LO + 5th Gear, and 4LO + 3rd gear when towing a Patrol 😅 ( @Frederic can confirm this ).

The 4:1 is LOW/4LO Gear Ratio, the High/4H is always 1:1, that is why 4L is also referred to as Reduction Gear, it reduces to crawling speed. Link to my old Gear Ratio Calculation post below , but I found another photo that explains better (also below). There are other Ratios that affect calculation: Ring & Pinion (sometimes shorthanded as just Axle Ratio) + Transmission Ratio itself (which is different for each Gear Shift) + Transfer Case Ratio

Assuming both Rubicon and non-Rubicon uses Chrysler's TorqueFlite 850RE 8-speed, which is licensed from ZF 8HP50 (used in BMW 5, 7, X3), here is the calculation for both when driving in 4LO 6th Gear (6th gear is where transmission ratio=1.0) for all cars:

Rubicon w/ 4.88 Axles (newer ones):
 - 4L 6th gear = 4.88 x 1.0 x 4.0 = 19.52 final 4LO spinning ratio (bigger means more crawling - less speed).

Rubicon w/ 3.73 Axles (older ones):
 - 4L 6th gear = 3.73 x 1.0 x 4.0 = 14.92 final 4LO spinning ratio.

Sport/Shara/SandRun/Mojave 3.73 Axle + 2.71 4LO:
 - 4L 6th Gear = 3.73 x 1.0 x 2.71 = 10.11 final 4LO spinning ratio.

There is an easy solution to this for Rubicon, just switch to 4LO + 8th Gear:
 - 4L 8th Gear Rubicon = 4.88 x 0.64 (8th gear ratio) x 4.0 = 12.5 final 4LO spinning ratio (close to Sahara's 10.11)

OR, Rubicon can drive in 4High with 3rd Gear:
 - 4High 3rd Gear Rubicon = 4.88 x 2.10 (3rd gear ratio) x 1.0 (4Hi)  = 10.25 (very close to Sahara's 10:11 on 4L 6th).

Assuming huge price differences between Rubicon and non-Rubicon (I just buy old Jeeps so not sure about new prices now), my recommendation is: if it's ONLY for Sand, then Sport & Sahara as cheaper options are better. You will only drive in 4Lo: most sensors are turned off already + when you're stuck or refusal you're already in 4Lo 😁

BUT if you want to do some rock-crawling and also sand-bashing, then Rubicon is a better choice. Those high 4LO spinning ratio / bigger crawling are useful for crawling uphill and braking downhill at steady low-speeds.

Link to Jeep Axle, Transmission, Transfer Case 4L Ratios  https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/gear-ratio-chart-for-jl-wrangler.1781/ 
 

Link to the Old Gear Ratio Calculator for FJ:

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Zed
typos, added Jeep Transmission Ratio Link as ref

[Josh S]

Hey all, it's controlz here (I changed my display name)!

By way of update, I settled on a 2021 2dr Rubicon and absolutely love it. Had my first absolute newbie drive on Sunday and very glad about my choice of car. Already doing some basic mods (Apex rapid deflators, flag mount kit, built-in compressor, and finally I have trimmed the bottom of the license plate and moved it to the side, as I have been told by multiple wrangler owners that it will scoop up the sand and I will lose the bumper, so this cheap modification should save me in the long run).

Can anybody suggest any iPhone Applications that run on CarPlay which may be helpful in the desert?

Thanks

[Frederic]

1 hour ago, Josh S said:

Hey all, it's controlz here (I changed my display name)!

By way of update, I settled on a 2021 2dr Rubicon and absolutely love it. Had my first absolute newbie drive on Sunday and very glad about my choice of car. Already doing some basic mods (Apex rapid deflators, flag mount kit, built-in compressor, and finally I have trimmed the bottom of the license plate and moved it to the side, as I have been told by multiple wrangler owners that it will scoop up the sand and I will lose the bumper, so this cheap modification should save me in the long run).

Can anybody suggest any iPhone Applications that run on CarPlay which may be helpful in the desert?

Thanks

GaiaGps is the best off-road navigation app around. Most of us use it.