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@Ahmad Shaker @Bjoern @Morshedi @Stav @Pascal @Richard Franks @premindra rajaram @Mohamad Anwer @Benjamin @Tharun Kumar V @Hisham Masaad @Srikumar @Varun Mehndiratta Good Morning everyone I hope you are all as excited as I am for this weekends Liwa Crossing. Please remember to go over the rules and drive preparation again so your vehicle and you are fully prepared for the drive. I would be devastated to sent someone back home on the meeting point .... It is highly recommended to drive alone, as it's a very serious and demanding drive to stay focused at all times. Maximum of one passenger allowed - No exceptions and trip lead will send you back. Make sure that passenger has no fear of heights, motion sickness and have been to full-day off-road drives before. As once we enter the desert, the only way out is from the other side, without any early exits for 100-150 kms. Everything in your car should be strapped and secured - All vehicles will be checked by the trip lead. Drive Preparation: Your car should be in 100% pristine working condition, so double or triple check everything. Full-size spare tire with a lug wrench to match your wheel nut size and its depth. For aftermarket rims - Your lug wrench also needs to match the wheel nut depth. As it's a long full-day drive, so catch up with enough sleep in advance. 5-10 liter of water per person. Snacks for breakfast, lunch, dinner and next day breakfast. Keep your car as light as possible by packing what is truly essential. Fully charged radio with spare battery and all other required off-road gears. Gas tank and required number of jerry cans should be full upon arrival. Last petrol station is ADNOC Khanoor (832): https://goo.gl/maps/FSUzbzURjQRGvFVN9 I would also recommend to everyone to bring 1 bag of wood each for the Saturday night camping, that way the wood is divided over more than one car and we will be definitely have enough wood to make a big camp fire to keep us warm. For people camping on the Friday evening, make sure you are as close as possible to the meeting point and you have refueled your car because you might not have time anymore in the morning. I want everyone to be at the meeting point at 7 am sharp, if you are late, I might leave you behind ! SEE YOU ALL IN LIWA !!!

Hey @Benjaminthis is a bit of a controversial topic, but a good one to bring up of course. There are two different things at play: 1. Upgrading your stock suspension, with or without lift. The OEM suspension is designed to have a good balance of offroad capabilities and on-road manners. Upgraded suspension might perform better offroad but there will be a price to pay in on-road driving. 2. More ground clearance. My personal opinion, looking at the existing clearance of a Jeep Wrangler would be that there is no need for more ground clearance. With your 4x4 you can easily reach intermediate level without any sort of mods. Take note if you lift your 4x4 but want to keep the same COG (center of gravity) you will need to have a wider stance as well (can be obtained by wheel spacers or aftermarket rims with more negative offset). In some way it's opening a can of worms, and might lead to many other modifications later to make better use of the lift kit (different control arms, etc...) All in all, long story short, here is my mantra: Your 4x4 should be as low as possible to have great handling, but high enough to have the clearance to manage all drive levels. You will notice that many IM members and trip leads are still on stock suspension and no lift. Again it depends on the vehicle and your own expectations.

Sure.. I will create a WA group for the drive members to coordinate

Yes I do remember as I see that radio everyday😂.. I will get it fully charged..

With the money you saved, book yourself a nice little trip to a resort with the family Stock Xterra-Stock Wheels-HT Tyres Leading Extreme drives in any terrain of the UAE.... As you can see, it's always about the driver and his skills.

Amazing thanks! I spent two weeks scratching my head trying to remember where I left it… which gave my parents the perfect opportunity to force me to eat more peeled almonds. I can finally go back to being treated like an adult 🙄🤣

I will depart Dubai by 7pm/8pm on Friday night so will most likely be at the meeting/camping point by midnight. @GauravSoni, I believe you have my spare Baofeng UV-5r from the Al Qua’a drive late last year. It should be all faded. Could you please bring that along with you?

Good evening @Carnity I’ve been doing some research around the topic of lift kits and the extra capability with the added bonus of some extra room when ridge-riding or crossing for some background I drive a jeep wrangler 2018 JL 3.6 liter with a long wheel base for this same reason I often hit the belly when driving over crests (which usually Isn’t an issue due to the stock skid plates + the added investment of a front metal skid plate which was much needed) still I think that it would be good to have that little extra room for higher dunes or when I progress to fewbie+ and intermediate it also adds a lot more off-road capability function for what I want to do. However I’m really writing this to ask more experienced off-roaders if this is something I should look more into as I inspire to build my way up to the top of carnity. for reference I’ve been looking at off-road zone and dwindled it down to a BDS 2 inch lift kit that comes with fox shocks giving some ride height and more suspension travel + more comfortable ride for 7000 aed. I’m not really looking for ridiculously high or super expensive but from the research I’ve been doing it seems like the best deal for quality. but please as I’m new here and quite young I would be happy with any feedback or advice. Thanks everyone! @Gary F

Fully agree with @Frederic - I did go through same thoughts what @Benjamin is going through now, but thanks to conversations with few experienced folks, I remained with Stock, and I dont think I missed out on anything so far....might think of lift up if i end up doing off-roading in mountains to cross boulders , Untill then, I continue to book holidays with family

Couldn’t clear my calendar enough so will be leaving Dubai ±5PM on Friday, will camp around the SP. @GauravSoni, could you please share location of your camp site once selected.

The X-pert entered the scene. Thanks @Thomas Varghese for your invaluable insights. I rotate all my five tires every 10k with almost clockwork precision - they get cleaned from inside and re-balanced. I do the rearward crossing as depicted in the chart below.

@zed cars can be repaired bro as long as your in one piece that matters most and thankfully your up and running …. Thanks to rest of the team who helped you out of that awkward situation but it happens to best of us ….. hope your car will be fixed soon as I can’t wait to drive with you again ….

I am camping on Friday but would reach late

Hi @GauravSoni 90% yes now, will have a full confirmation by tomorrow.

Dear desert expeditioners/ dune surfers! @Waqas Parvez @ASAD. @Vaibhav @Sunil Mathew @Anoop Nair @munkybizness @Santoso Marjuki @Mario Cornejo @Imran Kashif @Gaurav @Dodi Syahdar @Pacific@Ranjan Das welcome to the Liwa Expeditionary Adventure Drive “LEAD” ! We are all looking forward for this weekend with utmost excitement in anticipation of the thrilling adventure ahead! Please ensure that your mean machines are in top condition with any known issues sorted out and tested. I advise you all to be properly rested with sound physical and mental preparedness for this drive. Hence i suggested to avoid long drive on Saturday morning from Dubai to meeting point. i am planning to reach the starting point around 5 pm (while we still have daylight) on Friday and then find a suitable camping spot. Hi Anoop, I believe that you would be joining the drive..

@DP1011 , Deepak wranglerhe must be a parrot

@Benjamin I did the most modification before joining carnity. If I would have joined carnity first I would not require. Even for intermediate drives. Wranglers are very capable cars. I have a 2.5 inch lift and I still get the belly rubbed. Once you start spending,there is no end. Even at intermediate we have stock cars like @Anoop Nairwho has been driving at high pace and bigger dunes without any worries. If you worried for stuck and refusal that can happen with a lift also. If lifted definitely you will require spacers or -offset rims. And may be some bigger tires. Suggestion I can give you is to get the axle reinforcement done .

Reminds me of the new Top Gun movie, quote “It's Not The Plane, It's The Pilot.”

the machine underwent some checks yesterday, and couple of cracked lower arm bushes being replaced now...gearing up to be in top condition!! i will be halting at a modest Airbnb at Madinat Zayed, Friday evening and will drive down to the meeting point (1hr+ drive). not much of a camping guy , although i am getting all the camping gear sorted for the overnight desert halt, which will be my first camping experience , praying, i dont miss anything 🙂

hi @GauravSoni my car is still in workshop for repair after Siri's drive this Saturday. I will keep my rsvp for now since i dont see anyone in waiting list. Situation will be more clear by tomorrow hopefully.

well it's now over 48hrs, and I did go to the doctor per @Gaurav & @Srikumar's recommendation. Doc said since no vomitting, no broken ribs, no blurry vision and no pain whatsoever, she declared me fit to drive & work again 🙂 I would rather focus on the positive things and the good lucks, so here they are: alhamdulillah I managed to return home unharmed, thanks to every single one in the convoy, I pray God bless you all for your kindness. thanks to my trip marshal @Srikumar for leading the team during the incident. There were other younger blood he could direct & delegate to, but he chose to unroll his sleeves and in the process hit his head against my rear bumper (luckily it's stock fibre... imagine if it's the Y62 with 4mm steel 😱) it was good luck @Haitham Khattab pushed himself to join the drive eventhough he overslept and started driving at 5:30am. For his presence helped a lot, as we needed an Arabic speaker to translate and bridge the communication with the police. i had a nice recovery driver who shared me his Naan & vegetables lunch in short, eventhough it was an unfortunate incident, I am thankful and happy with the people who surrounded me & helped. Thanks for asking @Tom B @Rob S @ASAD. , not my first rollover with perfect landing on all 4 wheels, so the shocks were subdued a bit 😅, but nevertheless humbles and amazes me how we're given second..eh i mean... fourth chance. My wife reminded to watch the latest Puss in the Boots movie 😂 And this is the finale good news: only Windshield (500dhs second-hand) + Front Right Fender (300dhs second-hand) + Front Right Passenger Door (300dhs second-hand) are badly damaged. According to the Denting Specialist, the roof can be fixed without replacing the whole roof. I'll probably start a thread on the LC 10K bring-to-life restoration project 😄

I guess he was climbing up with much speed and suddenly hit the brakes and that shifted all the weight to the front. Maybe he was also in 2WD

Ummm all what you have said usually shouldn’t cause this . Actually not the acceleration what caused that it’s something else 😄

Crossing towards slip face, soft sand and too much of gas ? I would rather get crested than experience this

if you need lift, you can try suspension spacers which cost you few hundred bucks max, simply brings your car level higher. but your clearance will remain the same because the solid axle's differential is at the same level of the wheel hub, and it wont help you with driving. if you need better suspension for higher level drive, you have to do your homework, learn about different types of suspension product, hear what other owners have to say, and decide what you want. I bet every single offroad orientated aftermarket supplier has products for wrangler. lucky to have many options and unlucky that you have to choose one from many. you can read below thread, many interesting inputs from different wrangler owners I had spacers before only for clearance purpose(Mine are live axle front and rear, spacers do lift differentials), and replaced them with better suspension kit later on. the better damping and extra stability from the shock and coil help me lots in higher level

@Fredericthank you for your detailed explanation. im about to install lift of around 2.5 or 3 inches for my Xterra. you saved my money 👍

The numbers of drives you are waitlisted for. For example if you do not have a confirmed drive yet, it will show "1". If you are already RSVP'd on another drive, there will be a "2" showing. That numbering also provides priority to members who are on their first drive, so whenever spots become available, the system will automatically start adding members from the waitlist with "1" behind their name, and only when that list is exhausted, members with "2" will be added. Hope this is clear

@Zed sorry to hear about the unfortunate incident... Alhamdulillah you are safe and... Hope to see youbsoon with you monster LC soon. 👍 Hope @Haitham KhattabKhattab. Is an expert in dealing with abu dhabi police now... 😜

@Zed you have inspirational spirit. But more than you, i want to salute your wife who still lets you drive 😅 See you and the LC soon InshAllah.

@Pranjal Varsani1 agreed I had my fun with customization haha got some retro stripes going up the side and a hula girl on the dash board 😂

@BenjaminI have a 2022 Jeep Rubicon and I got a 2.5 inch lift, BP51 suspension and 35 inch tyres. I also had it regeared and tuned. Before the mods, I had done a few drives in the stock setup and honestly speaking the car was superb. For me however, the fun of buying a Jeep is all the customization you can do to it. It looks so much better and obviously drives better on sand. Are the mods necessary? Definitely not. Is the car more fun after the mods? Hell yeah!

@Gaurav hehehe it has been realy long time since this exercise 😄 Well this is the danger of driving on 2WD in the desert , the unspining front wheels acted like a break while the back of the car still in forward momentum. … the rest you know now 😉

Hitting the brakes just after crossing ?

@Vaibhav Thanks for the advice I will look into the axle reinforcement for sure, on revaluation I'm not going to go for the lift kit as all these added costs come out far more expensive to what I expected. However, your point on reinforcement is what I'm looking for, as getting refusals are all part of the fun personally, I learn from them. My only concern is damage to the car so reinforcement is definitely what I'm looking for

Hi @Benjamin this is a touchy subject especially for Jeepers. I personally feel that there is no need of a lift or not even a skid plate. But it is of benefit to have a firmer suspension which will allow you to negotiate bumpier terrains. For me I tried to change shocks from stock one without a lift but as i understand most of the shocks available for wrangler can only be installed with a lift kit. but if you are doing a lift then tires will have to be changed as well, so it's never ending. For the time being, I have decided not to do anything and keep it as stock.

Why this happened ?

@Frederic thanks for the insight and I totally agree! if I do make the decision I definitely want the benefit of keeping the same center of gravity so I understand that this kit would lead to other modifications to better increase the stance of the jeep. I mostly want to optimize the jeep for off-road but for the moment OEM parts have been holding out quite well this has definitely influenced my decision in the end. Cheers!

Which spare tire one should keep? 1) 50% treadlife with 3 years of age. 2) 100% treadlife with 6 years of age. I have 1 geolander G012 in unused condition as my spare tire since 2017. Now while getting new tires, should I replace unused G012 with half life G015 or keep G012 even if its 6 years old?

Would regular tire rotation help in the maintenance of the five tires? What is your view?

Great to see that !

Hi everyone! Thanks @Frederic for questions. Yes , indeed this is my first time being behind the wheel for a desert drive:) I was a passenger a few times previously - that was truly great so decided to try myself. Summary: 1) Jeep Wrangler 2011 ( 2 doors) 2) Only passenger experience 3) Yes, car has all necessary equipment since it participated in multiple carnity desert drives. Excited to meet everyone on Saturday and will definitely watch the shared video.

Assumed as much but just wanted to confirm before driving over on the weekend. Thanks for quick update. See you Saturday. 👍

Hi @L. Petelczycthese are old links which i forgot to remove, thanks for noticing !

Thanks Thomas for your valuable input, I actually threw half-life 4 tires in the garbage just now. lol. Btw, I have been using my spare tire for 2 weeks and didn't notice any issues on-road and off-road, but will change to a newer one soon.

Hi @Frederic Just reading through your required reading links for this drive. Are the covid19 related restrictions re: masking, leaving vehicle at rest stops being enforced on this trip only? (Links titled 'COVID19 Precautions' and 'Ban from Carnity Off-road Club') Earlier drive I did this month w/- carnity had no such restrictions mentioned in the required reading section. Cheers!

Vulcanized rubber to get deteriorated takes a lot of time. I have read all the comments here. The reason for the tire to get cracked after years is due to ply separation. Rubber compound when masticated with chemicals to become a tire compound has oil also added to it. After years the oil starts to evaporate making the tire more brittle. Also when the tire is vulcanized in the tire mould the outer parts of the tire get more heat and vulcanizes more. The inner parts of the tire where the ply's are arranged are not vulcanized fully as heat reaches there less. So a tire which has aged is more likely to fail as the bond between the ply's gets weaker after years. Another reason is the addition of synthetic rubber in tires. Synthetic rubber is added to the compound to give it more abrasion resistance. But if u have stock of old synthetic rubber, you see that the tensile strength of the rubber has deteriorated a lot and if u pull it will just tear off. I can say this with 100% confidence as I had a rubber mastication unit which was handed over to me through generations. @gaurav I would keep the 50% tread life tire and throw the 6 year old tire in the garbage.

Yes my spare is always covered with plastic tire cover

I would vote for the tyre that has had the least amount of UV or heat exposure. If the 2017 one has seen little to no sun, i would expect the rubber compound integrity to be better. Some telltale signs of ageing could be colour fade and small micro-cracks in the rubber. What is rubber deterioration? Most elastomers undergo rubber degradation over time and the most common rubber deterioration causes are exposure to light, oxygen (ozone) and heat. The molecular changes brought about by these environmental conditions can significantly impact the mechanical properties and therefore service life of rubber products like seals and O-rings. Oxidative and thermal ageing of rubber are accelerated by stress and reactive gases, like ozone, resulting in cracking, charring and colour fading. However, the addition of antioxidants, UV stabilisers and antiozonates can slow or prevent these types of issues. Oxidative rubber degradation can cause hardening or softening, depending on the structure of the elastomer. Hardening is more common because free radicals produced due to heat, oxygen and light combine to form new crosslinks, which reduces the flexibility of the rubber.

Dear zeddy @Zed happy to learn that you are Good bro . All the best and take care . 🙏

He turned too much than when it start fishtail he braked too hard