Subwoofer options for an FJ Cruiser

[Niki]

32 minutes ago, Heisem said:

@Niki Patel the amp is where you will see the difference along with the sub. Right now your new speakers dont have juice to power. them. Get minimum 4 channel amp 😉.

You are a dangerous forum member @Heisem as this comment I have read as encouragement to go and get an amp 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️ (And sub).  Thanks and nice hearing the shops suggestion validated also

[Gaurav]

Sorry for being late to the music party.

I totally agree with @Heisem on getting 4 or 5 channel Amp and that too good quality one, will make all the difference.

Here is my build I got it done in 2 tranches - without sub due to limited space, but choice of AMP made a nice big difference with 650 Watt Pioneer speakers

• Front Door: Pioneer TS-A1686S - 350W - 60W RMS
• Front Dash: Pioneer TS-S20 - 200W - Tweeter
• Back Seat: Pioneer TS-A6996S - 650W - 100W RMS
• Pioneer GM-D9605 - 2000W - Class D 5-Channel Amplifier with Wired Bass Boost

Also research on Amplifier specification properly so you know it can support existing setup or scale up in future.

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/Amplifiers/GM+Digital+Series/GM-D9605

[Niki]

@Gaurav with that setup i say you are the resident DJ at this Music Party! ... always welcome and appreciate the sharing! 

Tip for any Apple Music and Apple Car Play users - Settings>Music>EQ OFF & Sound Check OFF.  This has transformed the experience (still not amazing but now at least the music experience feels like an upgrade)

I am likely to take 3 stages to build out the system. 

Stage 1: Sound Proofing & Component Upgrade (sound is an improvement but not 'wow' yet, the deadening is really effective) 

• Component pack: Ground Zero GZRC 200NEO-IV
  • Front Doors 2x 8" Mid (120W RMS)
  • Dash mounted 2x 1" Dome Tweets 
• Sound Deadening
  • Door cards
  • Door shell 
  • Dash housing for the tweets

Stage 2: Feed the Component some real power & decide on Sub

• 5 Channel Amp - researching and deciding on budget including install 
• Matching Ground Zero Option GZHA MINI FIVE - Class D Mini 5 Channel Car Amplifier - 1200 Watt Max)
  • Channels: 5
  • Output Power (@ 4Ω) 4x 75 + 190 Watts RMS
  • Output Power (@ 2Ω) 4x 125 + 320 Watts RMS
  • max. Output 1200 Watts
• Subwoofer - more research needed
  • Underseat (Alpine options looks tempting right now)
  • small enclosed unit similar to @Heisem Pioneer setup (as i can still load items around/above it if needed)
  • FJ specific JBL option 
  • FJ Specific custom Fabrication 

Stage 3: Finishing touches - remove the remaining stock 4" speakers (rear pillar in trunk mounted speakers) 

• These bring such little value so once the other items are done i can see if it will bring anything to the setup and its likely a modest spend. 

will share my experience with the Ground Zero products - they are a well loved brand in europe and so far my biggest issue is the weak head-unit (processing and power) - and as my kids say my taste in music doesnt help either!!

 

[Frederic]

Ground Zero is indeed well known in Europe. I don't have experience with it as i was a car audio fanatic in the 2000-2006 before the brand was arriving in Europe markets under the Ground Zero Gmbh holding. I've had Rockford Fosgate, JL Audio, Kicker, Lanzar, and few others which i had in different installs over the years. Initially i went for Db Drag contests, but later moved to IASCA sound quality contests. 

Totally agree with the sound insulation works, your speaker will only sound as good as the enclosure it's sitting in, and without proper insulation your high-end speaker will never come alive.

Forget about the "Watts" as most companies advertise the PMPO output (Peak Music Power Output) which is TOTALLY irrelevant. The RMS rating is more realistic. Just make sure your amplifier is able to deliver a clean undistorted signal to the speaker, so ideally your RMS output rating of the amp should be higher than the RMS rating of your speaker. You can further fine tune with the sensitivity potmeter to make sure you're not overloading the speakers.

Subwoofers are a different subject at all. If you are tight for space, go for a 10inch subwoofer either on its own amplifier, or bridged on your 5 channel amplifier. I am more in favor of using a separate amp for the sub.

Try to avoid messing too much with the EQ of your head unit and all these bass-boost functions that only distort the original signal. If you want more bass, get more or bigger subwoofers instead of overloading them with distorted signals.

In my little Pajero i have a Lanzar 4channel amp with Lanzar front speakers and JBL GTO oval speakers in the back. Few months back the amplifier (which was already quite old) starting crackling and eventually after trying to repair it i just threw it away and for the moment everything is connected to the Kenwood head unit. I can only dream about having a Subwoofer again as i simply don't have any space in the back due to all the offroad tools and equipment. 

 

Picture from my first setup in 2001: Pioneer 4 Channel Amp for the Pioneer speakers, and a RF Punch 60x2 Amp for the RF 12" Punch Series Subwoofer. Good times 😁

[Gaurav]

Also get the good quality oxygen free cable before doing the final setup and connect all speakers and sub directly to Amp. As many road side audio guys run back speakers with Amp and front with head unit.

[Frederic]

7 minutes ago, Gaurav said:

Also get the good quality oxygen free cable before doing the final setup and connect all speakers and sub directly to Amp. As many road side audio guys run back speakers with Amp and front with head unit.

As a budget option it is perfectly doable to keep the rear speakers connected to your head-unit IF your headunit is of decent quality. The reason for this is that your front speakers matter the most in providing you a clear crisp detailed stereo image, so most of your budget should go to that. Rear speakers are meant as "infill" to compliment to the overall sound in your car.

In sound level you should be aiming at a 70/30 rate in which 70% of the power is made by the front speakers, and 30% is the sound coming from the rear.

A Subwoofer is ideally meant to compliment the lack of low frequencies your front and rear speakers can play. Everything below 80hz can be filtered and sent to the subwoofer if the amplifier has a Low Pass Filter (LPF) on board. The front and rear speakers are not made for that anyways.

Unfortunately 95% of the sound systems i hear in cars is ALL BASS and nothing else. 

I stepped away from that whole audio scene long time back after i noticed some car manufacturers (especially German) really stepped up their game with decent speakers, and sometimes built-in subwoofers. They are far from perfect, but with a bit of EQ and some small improvements you will have very decent sound quality in a premium vehicle without the need to tear it all apart and replace.

 

[Ahab Shamaa]

Whoa! @Niki Patel, @Heisem, @Gaurav and @Frederic!

How the hell do you guys know all this stuff? I had no idea about any of it 😀 Oxygen free cabling? I thought you were gonna say make sure the cables are asbestos free; that’s how ancient my car audio knowledge is 🤣 I felt like I was reading a technical article on Wikipedia.

In any event, my humble conclusion from this thread (and a couple of others), is that I need to omit @Niki Patel’s posts from my reading list as they’re not conducive to my good health; financial health that is. After reading Niki’s posts, I somehow always end up spending or think of spending more money 😂

12.1 inch screen, new tires, kill switches, and now to top it all up, a new sound system with oxygen free cables, a subwoofer and insulated doors!!!

You guys are killing me! I don’t need any help spending money; I already have a lovely wife who is very effective and efficient at doing that 😅

[Alexander Alcala]

No one mentioned that while off-roading you are suppose to listen to your car and not to music, jajajajaja

[Ahab Shamaa]

¡Tienes toda la razón @Alexander Alcala! La actitud en este país es un desastre cuando se trata de gastar dinero 🤪

I fully agree Alexander! While off-roading, we should be listening to radio instructions, the humming of our cars and the tranquility of nature. Now this is an economical solution that I like 😀 I will start reading more of your threads from now on 🤪

[Niki]

@Frederic thank you for sharing your experience and as someone who had competition setups, that's a lot of quality advice!  removing the software EQ and sound controls from the phone as a source has made a huge difference to the setup so far.  It leaves me much happier and buys me some time to research and plan and future spend - i want to get the Amp right (am glad i added 8" mids as they deliver a decent level of bass even without a sub so for now, i have it much better than the stock and can not be tempted to buy so quickly future upgrades).

@Frederic did you consider (and dismiss quickly) the idea of an underseat sub (ultimate space saver but i suspect No Sub is better than poor quality for an audiophile) 

@Alexander Alcala now you getting me in trouble with the marshals and crew!!  ... as a disclaimer, the begining of my post, i mentioned this was to make the trip to and from the start points more pleasant .. lol (if i am caught pumping my poor taste in music during drives i will hang my head in shame!)

@Ahab Shamaa come on now!! you have the 'pin up FJ' - i stopped looking at mine now i have seen your queen!  Extreme, roof rack with the treads, a WINCH! and i bet the list is going on! ps my knowledge is due to the vast experience with google & 'copy-paste' - a whole days worth of knowledge is what i have