Manual vs Automatic off-road

[Foxtrot Oscar]

@Arman @Rory AshmanI knew this topic would be covered somewhere.

Perhaps our other manual drivers can offer some hints and tips?

[Anoop Nair]

Dear Fellow Carnitians, Could you please advise on the gear use while driving manual off road? As example a climb like pink rock, can this be done on second gear or only to be done on first (or can attempt to change in between during the climb? or a bad idea). Also is there any real negatives if first gear is used extensively during the drive. Also is there any occasion, where in flat dunes we can go to 3rd gear if the rpm is around 2.5K. Advises are much appreciated. TIA

[Frederic]

23 minutes ago, Anoop Nair said:

Dear Fellow Carnitians, Could you please advise on the gear use while driving manual off road? As example a climb like pink rock, can this be done on second gear or only to be done on first (or can attempt to change in between during the climb? or a bad idea). Also is there any real negatives if first gear is used extensively during the drive. Also is there any occasion, where in flat dunes we can go to 3rd gear if the rpm is around 2.5K. Advises are much appreciated. TIA

Hi @Anoop Nair, this will be slightly different for different 4x4 models based on the gear ratio. What you need to try to do is to keep your car in the power band during the drive. In my case this is between 2500 and 3500rpm, which allows me to use the available power at all times. During a hill climb from a standstill, go to first gear and keep it in gear (do not change gears while climbing).

When you have to do a long hill climb or sideslope where you have the chance to take a long running up, you can shift to second gear but make sure you are well within your powerband otherwise you will lose your momentum.

In my Pajero it goes as following:

1st gear up to 6000rpm/ +/- 50kmh (used for hill climb only, nothing else).

2nd gear for most sidesloping at about 40-45 km/h.

3rd gear for fast pace desert driving where no climbs are needed.

I have seen people doing a hill climb in first gear, then move up to second gear, and when losing momentum, pushing it back to first gear. I am not a fan of doing this as this creates a massive strain on the clutch and you need to do this very fast or the lack of momentum will abort your hill climb immediately. In my Pajero my first gear is very short while the second gear is quite long. For Jeep this might be different. I think @Srikumar will be able to relate his experience as well.

 

[Anoop Nair]

9 minutes ago, Frederic said:

Hi @Anoop Nair, this will be slightly different for different 4x4 models based on the gear ratio. What you need to try to do is to keep your car in the power band during the drive. In my case this is between 2500 and 3500rpm, which allows me to use the available power at all times. During a hill climb from a standstill, go to first gear and keep it in gear (do not change gears while climbing).

When you have to do a long hill climb or sideslope where you have the chance to take a long running up, you can shift to second gear but make sure you are well within your powerband otherwise you will lose your momentum.

In my Pajero it goes as following:

1st gear up to 6000rpm/ +/- 50kmh (used for hill climb only, nothing else).

2nd gear for most sidesloping at about 40-45 km/h.

3rd gear for fast pace desert driving where no climbs are needed.

I have seen people doing a hill climb in first gear, then move up to second gear, and when losing momentum, pushing it back to first gear. I am not a fan of doing this as this creates a massive strain on the clutch and you need to do this very fast or the lack of momentum will abort your hill climb immediately. In my Pajero my first gear is very short while the second gear is quite long. For Jeep this might be different. I think @Srikumar will be able to relate his experience as well.

 

Thanks @Fredericfor the clear explanation and thought process. the hill climb is duly noted. Since there are 6 gears for the jeep in second i feel like in the power band most of the time. I am still not very confident some times when there is a very short run up to get out of a bowl or when i see very soft churned up sand i tend to keep it in first until I get out of that particular difficulty, even though in my mind i feel changing to second might have been the correct approach. 

[Frederic]

6 minutes ago, Anoop Nair said:

Thanks @Fredericfor the clear explanation and thought process. the hill climb is duly noted. Since there are 6 gears for the jeep in second i feel like in the power band most of the time. I am still not very confident some times when there is a very short run up to get out of a bowl or when i see very soft churned up sand i tend to keep it in first until I get out of that particular difficulty, even though in my mind i feel changing to second might have been the correct approach. 

Another hint to crawl out of a bowl is to use 4LO second gear. It gives you all the torque without generating too much wheel spin. Of course, as soon as you are out, switch back to 4Hi 

[Varun Mehndiratta]

On 11/18/2020 at 9:28 AM, Wrangeld said:

For years and years, I was an "I will never drive an automatic". Then I realised, life is simply easier in an automatic day to day. I still remember how frustrating is was sitting in early morning traffic on the way into central London driving a manual. 

Off road, I went for Auto first simply because I knew there would be a lot to think about apart from changing gear. 

For sure, at some stage, I will have a manual for the desert. As long as it's not my daily driver. Auto is simply that, automatic, so easier. 

That's why it's Tiptronics in AT for me..😄😄.. remember my first drive with @Wrangeld and message was loud n clear "D" it is.... So stick to master's words except ofcourse when climbing hills ... 

[Srikumar]

@Anoop Nair the gear ratios of a Wrangler JL 6 speed are as follows:

Gear Ratios which I pulled off the internet :

• 1st - 5.13
• 2nd - 2.63
• 3rd - 1.53
• 4th - 1.00
• 5th - 0.81
• 6th - 0.72

So what this basically means is that your first gear is a high torque gear, but not a high speed gear.  You can check on the road and see what's the max speed you can do, I would presume it would be close to 40 - 45 km/h. Now, for long hill climbs speed closer to 60 km/ h and above at the base of the dune is important along with being in the right power band. Shifting during the hill climb at high rpm does put a lot of strain on your gear box. But with a lot of practice, you can build the speed at the base of the dune closer to 70 km/h on second gear, and when you feel the RPM drop to about 3500 that's when you can do a quick downshift to 1st gear. That minimizes the jerk during the climb. Another technique, which I am still practicing is to keep the engine revs constant during the gear shift, that means I am trying to hold the gas steady. Had more failures than success, but nce it becomes smooth I believe that would be the best approach for long hill climbs in a manual transmission. Of course, MOST IMPORTANT, there is no Half Clutch in the desert - Its either fully in or fully out, nothing in between.

To add to what Fredy said on the low gear in my XJ, 4Lo 3rd gear is equivalent to 4Hi 1st gear. So in some tricky places I have done like he mentioned, start in 4Lo 3rd gear, and then downshift as required till I get out. But every model has a different gear ratios and you need to play a bit to find the sweet spot.
 

1 hour ago, Anoop Nair said:

Also is there any real negatives if first gear is used extensively during the drive.

Regarding your question of extended driving it in 1st gear, due to my gear ratios, there have been times where I have gone through large stretches of the desert in 1st gear only. Recently I had to open up my gear box for some other reason and when I checked my 1st gear, its still in excellent condition and I have been driving this same gearbox in the sand for 4 years. So as long as you keep changing the manual gear oil once in say 40k km, you should not have any gear damage due to prolong drive in 1st gear.

Good luck and enjoy your ride.

[Rawad]

[Frederic]

[Varun Mehndiratta]

8 hours ago, Srikumar said:

@Anoop Nair the gear ratios of a Wrangler JL 6 speed are as follows:

Gear Ratios which I pulled off the internet :

• 1st - 5.13
• 2nd - 2.63
• 3rd - 1.53
• 4th - 1.00
• 5th - 0.81
• 6th - 0.72

So what this basically means is that your first gear is a high torque gear, but not a high speed gear.  You can check on the road and see what's the max speed you can do, I would presume it would be close to 40 - 45 km/h. Now, for long hill climbs speed closer to 60 km/ h and above at the base of the dune is important along with being in the right power band. Shifting during the hill climb at high rpm does put a lot of strain on your gear box. But with a lot of practice, you can build the speed at the base of the dune closer to 70 km/h on second gear, and when you feel the RPM drop to about 3500 that's when you can do a quick downshift to 1st gear. That minimizes the jerk during the climb. Another technique, which I am still practicing is to keep the engine revs constant during the gear shift, that means I am trying to hold the gas steady. Had more failures than success, but nce it becomes smooth I believe that would be the best approach for long hill climbs in a manual transmission. Of course, MOST IMPORTANT, there is no Half Clutch in the desert - Its either fully in or fully out, nothing in between.

 

 

Challenge with going high on speed has always been bumps at bottom of the dune... @Srikumar any tips while on Tiptronics with this situation .