Morning Fewbie Desert Drive - Super Soft Super Technical - Qudra - Dubai - 10 Sep 2023

[Bravoecho]

19 minutes ago, Looper said:

As we reached our meeting point, some of us found ourselves engaging in a mini self-recovery due to the soft terrain. Prior to our combined convoy briefing, I was reminded that Convoy One comprised all the Mitsubishi Pajeros on the expedition. It was then that I playfully brought up the selection process for the convoys, which involved grouping vehicles based on the number of drives and assigning them to Convoy 1 and 2 sequentially.

The remarkable history of Mitsubishi Pajero, now known as the Montero, was not lost to me. These vehicles boast an illustrious rally sport heritage and are considered among the finest machines ever crafted. Although they may not be as forgiving in desert conditions as some other vehicles, when guided by a skilled driver, they can match any car stride for stride.

While Convoy Two appeared to have a relatively smoother journey, Convoy One encountered the full wrath of the challenging terrain. Initially, I worried that I might have exaggerated the ruggedness of the area, but it soon became clear that the terrain lived up to its formidable reputation. It wasn't exceptionally soft, but it was undeniably technical. We experienced a couple of tire popouts and had nasty refusals in soft sand, necessitating the use of ropes to help pull the vehicles even before we had crossed the 4 km mark. However, as the journey continued, the convoy's performance improved significantly.

I took the opportunity to explain the best approaches for handling this demanding terrain, and I noticed a significant difference in our drive once we resumed after overcoming the initial obstacles. Although I refrained from vocalizing it at the time (as I believe in avoiding jinxing things by speaking too soon), I found myself driving at a higher speed through even more challenging terrain than we encountered at the beginning of the drive. To my delight, the convoy exceeded my expectations, and we encountered no further issues in this area. I have highlighted the area in the screenshot above which is a must do area in my opinion. I looped back in the highlighted area one more time before we left. I plan to do it again in the near future.

As we left this area, we encountered one of the densest and bushiest deserts imaginable. Hardly should it be called a desert even. I was practically scraping the dunes' base to locate enough sand to continue driving. At this point, my focus was to complete the drive as our scheduled time had arrived.

Towards the end I discovered some nice spots where we could do side-sloping on long ridges. We took advantage of this, but just a few hundred feet from the exit, we faced another pop out. Convoy Two also exited at the same end location where Convoy One had completed the drive.

@Bravoecho you were excellent second lead to me and perhaps had the most amount of driving done in the convoy apart from me, keeping up with me in all the areas without any issues.

@Srilakshman Karthikeyan you too had a good drive. I will recommend that you start to notice what the desert sands are telling you on how to drive on them. The soft sands require that you either drive with very gentle gas or full force of acceleration. You should now focus on the same and understand how to respond to soft sands of the deserts.

@Abhilash Kottakkal couple of advises for you. One - do not fret over anything that happened today. All the refusals and popouts are part of the driving experience. You need to focus on how to reduce them - in doing so try to get some reliable pressure measuring device because you told me that you were at 10-12 psi when I checked you were actually at 8 psi.  Next try to be gentler with steering. Desert does not like anything abrupt and it will cause issues. You will not only lose control over your car, but you can find yourself in some nasty situations. My second piece of advice is that whenever you change something in your vehicle, start low and gradually go up the levels - without over doing it.

@Emanuel you were remarkable with your driving today. 

@Stumpy Paj thanks for all the help with the popouts and refusals. It was great to have you on the drive as usual.

@Mahmoud Taha you definitely had the most driving done today and had some nice skill presentation when the rest of us had our break. That refusal on the crest and self-recovery was quite an impressive showcase of your driving prowess. BTW we would have left you there on the top of the dune to fend for yourself, should you not self-recover yourself.

@Benjamin thank you very much for the assistance with managing the convoy and the effort you always put into every drive you join.

I would also like to take this opportunity to thank @Kailas & @DP1011 for joining and taking up the second convoy. 

Thanks @Looper always a pleasure sharing the dunes with you and thanks for giving me the chance of Second Lead.

Very different perspective from being further back and seeing the constant course corrections you need to make as Lead.

[Mahmoud Taha]

Thanks @Looper for the drive.

And my pleasure to everyone I met.

 

[Abhilash Kottakkal]

@Looper.. I was thinking of a comfortable ride today on my new tyres as I was kind of successful with yesterday's newbie drive with gaurav at 10 psi. that drive took us to the big red dune and soem other bowls also, I was not successful in going full up the dune but it was okay. I checked the tyre pressure with the arb dial guage and it seems fine. I was able to do what a pajero could do. Today I used the same and you got 8psi with Michelin digital. The same Michelin I was using before but when on my first drive with bfg I was checking the pressures and there was drastick variations and I was getting 12 on my Michelin and arb manual was showing 15... so I don't know.... my vehicle also sways a lot maybe because I cannot put of the traction control and abs fully. I drive on 4hlc with sand option and traction control off but I think this is programmed for light offloading..not the stuff that we do now....anyway its a combination of things getting me confused on what's the course of action  forward... I think I will just take few more newbie drives as you advised till I and my vehicle get used to the tyres, pressure and the control...

Sorry guys to get all you in trouble and loose the good momentum you guys were looking forward to....appreciate all your help and patience..especially the last pop out which was very near the exit and you didn't leave me alone..everyone stayed back to help me out.....good experience...good people..everyone similing and say that all right mate no worries it  happens a lot... and looking forward to see you all again on the sand without stucks and pop out...

[Stumpy]

13 hours ago, Abhilash Kottakkal said:

@Looper.. I was thinking of a comfortable ride today on my new tyres as I was kind of successful with yesterday's newbie drive with gaurav at 10 psi. that drive took us to the big red dune and soem other bowls also, I was not successful in going full up the dune but it was okay. I checked the tyre pressure with the arb dial guage and it seems fine. I was able to do what a pajero could do. Today I used the same and you got 8psi with Michelin digital. The same Michelin I was using before but when on my first drive with bfg I was checking the pressures and there was drastick variations and I was getting 12 on my Michelin and arb manual was showing 15... so I don't know.... my vehicle also sways a lot maybe because I cannot put of the traction control and abs fully. I drive on 4hlc with sand option and traction control off but I think this is programmed for light offloading..not the stuff that we do now....anyway its a combination of things getting me confused on what's the course of action  forward... I think I will just take few more newbie drives as you advised till I and my vehicle get used to the tyres, pressure and the control...

Sorry guys to get all you in trouble and loose the good momentum you guys were looking forward to....appreciate all your help and patience..especially the last pop out which was very near the exit and you didn't leave me alone..everyone stayed back to help me out.....good experience...good people..everyone similing and say that all right mate no worries it  happens a lot... and looking forward to see you all again on the sand without stucks and pop out...

@Abhilash Kottakkal I actually think the problem is those new tyres are not suitable for your factory rims. That factory rim appears to have a bead grip ridge on the inside that is to small for the larger bead of your new tyres.

If the bead is not allowed to seat properly every time you lower the pressure you will be at risk of this happening. I would take them back to the shop and see if they can confirm. 
 

don’t worry about getting help, that’s why we are In This club, it’s all about learning and helping each other 👍
 

Edit: just had a quick look and your factory rim look like it’s only 7.5” rim, right on the lower limit for those wider tyres you have just put on. Might be why they pop off so easy.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Stumpy Paj

[Srikumar]

1 hour ago, Stumpy Paj said:

Edit: just had a quick look and your factory rim look like it’s only 7.5” rim, right on the lower limit for those wider tyres you have just put on. Might be why they pop off so easy.

That might infact help reduce popouts as the tyre is sitting very tight on the rim. I did the same when I increased the width from a 235 mm to a 270 mm on a 7.5 inch rim width. It turned out to be very forgiving with terms to popouts.

[Stumpy]

8 minutes ago, Srikumar said:

That might infact help reduce popouts as the tyre is sitting very tight on the rim. I did the same when I increased the width from a 235 mm to a 270 mm on a 7.5 inch rim width. It turned out to be very forgiving with terms to popouts.

Unfortunately no that is not the case,

if the rim is to narrow the bead will not seat correctly and the risk of rolling it off the rim is very high. especially the low pressure we are running.

[Abhilash Kottakkal]

Just to update you all I cleaned my tyres after the ride and I was loosing pressure.. the culprit was the valve. I observed during our popouts but was not sure. The enoch people also failed to notice but when I took it took to the tyre people who put on the bfg they found it. The right one at the end I am still wondering...may be it's the last push that ended up In a popout anyway 12 psi I should start again..

Regarding the rim size the internal ridge size or the gap btw they told me it not a issue at all..the ridge of the tyre is not that much and there is enough room and it doesn't play a role in your popouts..they were like 10 psi is too low and this create gap btw rim and tyre and if there is sand in btw this you loose more air because of no sealing and finally a popeout...

I personally feel that the popouts was because of...I don't know😂

Any way let me go down to 12 next newbie drive and see what happens...

 

Thank you all for your inputs and please keep advising me...

[Deepak Eswar]

On 9/5/2023 at 5:30 AM, Looper said:

These are the stats from the last two drives I did here.

In the first of the drive, we had a situation where we had a stuck car being pulled by another that got stuck which needed to be pulled by one more which got stuck too so we had to use one more behind it. There was a pop out too at the very start even before we entered the dunes.

In the second drive at one time, we found three cars inside a small bowl, a little later in the drive we had 2 or 3 simultaneous popouts being fixed at the same time, and a dead car towards the end of the drive, in the dark.

Expectation: The sand will be incredibly soft; the dunes are un-even and narrow. It will be a slow and treacherous track, where anything that could go wrong will go wrong.

Objective: We will thread carefully among the dunes and try to keep moving by finding an uncomplicated way to navigate. 

Reality:  TBA

Dear Gautam, Kailas & Deepak, The drive you made it Superb! It was a unique and enjoyable experience and I really enjoyed it.  Very well planned  & managed. Thank you for your support and look forward.